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Thread started 18 Mar 2012 (Sunday) 05:32
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Need a lens for my camera, please advice

 
platforminc
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Mar 18, 2012 05:32 |  #1

Hi All,

I am relatively new to photography but do read a lot and sadly less practice, I have a Canon 500D with the kit lens and also a 1.8 50mm. One thing that I have not got my head around is the mm bit witin the lens, all I know is that the higher the number, the more suitable it willl be for a telephoto, so 200mm now would be for long range shots i.e birds etc.

Now for me, most of my shots are of people, either potrait or group of people in a gathering indoor etc, I also enjoy nighttime photography as well as I feel it stands out. I have been trying to find a general purpose lens that will tick the boxes, I also like photos where I can have a very shallow depth of field and pop out the subject. In view of the following, I think a 17- 50mm 2.8 Tamrom lens would be suitable, its not too expensive as I am not a comercial photographer and dont make anything from it.

But I do see other lens as well, but what I tend to pay attention to is more the f stop, so for this tamrom for example I like the fact that I can shoot at 2.8 fixed. I tried out a canon equivalent at a shop, and the results were brilliant.

Also when I see other lens i.e 18-85 3.5 - 5.6 what comes to my mind is the fact that it wouldnt be more different to my kit lens at 18-55 f3.5 - 5.6 and oftern get put off. I would like some advice, and all there seems to be in my head right now is to target a lens with a very shallow DOF.

Any advice please


Camera: Canon 500D, f1.8 50mm, kit lens, Tamron 17-50 f2.8 VC, 430EX flash, Remote control,Tripod, Cleaning kit.

  
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marmatt1218
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Mar 18, 2012 09:18 |  #2

The Tamron is a nice lens. If you are looking for "very shallow DOF" you might look for a prime. 2.8 is very nice, but I would not consider it as "very shallow DOF."

Perhaps for indoor group shots or portraits & nighttime photography, look at the Sigma 30mm 1.4. That lens will give you the very shallow depth of field you are looking for. I use it as my general purpose lens.

Good luck!



Marilyn

  
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Sirrith
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Mar 18, 2012 09:34 |  #3

If all you want is shallow DOF, why not use your 50mm?

For portraits etc... where you want shallow DOF, you'll want around that focal length anyway, you aren't going to get very shallow DOF at 17mm.

Plus for group portraits, you don't want shallow DOF, because unless everyone is lined up perfectly, you'll get some people out of focus.

That said, the tamron 17-50 is a good upgrade from the kit lens, I don't see any reason you'd be disappointed with it.

The 15-85 (no such thing as 18-85), is also a very good upgrade from the kit lens. The extra 3mm on the wide end make a lot of difference, and the extra 30mm on the long end is useful to have. While maximum aperture range remains the same as your kit lens, IQ doesn't, nor does the AF. It is simply put superior in every way.

The way to choose is to consider your shooting habits. Are you satisfied with the 18-55's focal length? Do you find yourself wanting wider/longer? If you are happy with ~18-55, then the 17-50 will be the right choice. If you find yourself wishing you had more on either end, the 15-85 would be better.


-Tom
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rick_reno
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Mar 18, 2012 10:38 |  #4

Agree with Sirrith, use that 50 if you want shallow DOF.

15-85 is a very good lens, IQ is excellent from it.




  
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John ­ from ­ PA
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Mar 18, 2012 10:44 |  #5

Since the concerns you've expressed seem to be related to focal length the Tamron 17-50mm is not going to do much for you as compared to the 18-55mm. The difference of f/2.8 vs. 3.5 to 5.6 is not going to be huge. Perhaps you should be exploring shooting in aperture control and forcing the lens to wide open through shuuter speed or ISO selection.

To give you a perspective, using the same criteris of acceptance for Depth of Field (DOF) examine the following scenarios:

Tamron at 50mm f/2.8, 1 meter subject distance on a 1.6 cropped body...the DOF is 0.043 meter, about 1.7 inches.
Canon at 55mm f/4, 1 meter subject distance on a 1.6 cropped body...the DOF is .05 meter, 1.97 inches.
Canon at 55mm f5.6, 1 meter subject distance on a 1.6 cropped body...the DOF is .07 meter, about 2.75 inches

Depth of field increases at the shorter focal lengths like 17mm or 18mm so the numbers above are worse case.

Depth of Field Calculator at http://www.cambridgein​colour.com/tutorials/d​of-calculator.htm (external link) should you want to "play."




  
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amfoto1
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Mar 18, 2012 11:30 |  #6

Hi and welcome to POTN...

A short course on focal lengths for your camera...

8mm to 12mm are considered Ultra Wide Angle. You might find these useful for landscapes, architectural interiors and other purposes. Wide lenses tend to render deep depth of field, everything from near to far in acceptibly sharp focus. The wider a lens, the more it will have some distortion effects... think of humorous photos of people with really big noses and tiny ears, done by getting close with a wide angle lens. (Note: there are even wider lenses called "fisheye", which have even stronger distortion effects)

15mm to 22mm are wide angle lenses. Less distortion, but still pretty wide to moderately wide.

24mm to 35mm lenses are "normal" or "standard" lenses (actually this range covers slightly wide normal to slightly telephoto normal lenses). These give approx the same angle of view as you see with your eyes and are among the fastest (largest aperture).

40mm to 85mm are "short telephoto" lenses on your camera. Within this range are popular portrait lenses... long enough to render a nice perspective (little distortion effects), and if it has a large enough aperture, able to better blur down backgrounds... but not so long that you need gobs of working space or start to see other types of distortion effects. There are also some macro lenses in these focal lengths.

90mm to 135mm are "moderate telephoto" lenses on your camera. These give more "reach", more blurred down backgrounds, but are becoming increasingly more difficult to handhold for a steady shot. There are also more macro lenses in these focal lengths. These might be used as "long" portrait lenses... or for moderate reach shooting sports... among other things.

150mm to 200mm are "strong telephoto", while 300mm and up are often called "super telephoto". There are also distortion effects with telephoto lenses. The main thing is "compression" of perspective. This is a lot more subtle than wide angle distortions. Telephotos in these categories are popular, among other things, for sports photography, for wildlife photography, and more. Anyone photography small subjects at a distance, such as birds, might want a really long telephoto lens... 400mm and up. There's a saying among birders, in fact, that there's no such thing as a "long enough" lens!

There is nothing that can be done about wide angle or telephoto perspective distortions.... It's just a fact of life and they aren't necessarily a bad thing anyway, once you learn to use them to your advantage. So, just be aware of and work with them.

There's a lot more to lenses, though, than just the focal length. As you've already noted, there are f-stops to think about, among other things.

I'm sure you are aware, there are zooms that cover a range of focal lengths and primes that offer only a single focal length. Your 18-55 is a zoom and your 50/1.8 is a prime. Zooms are far more complex, more difficult for manufacturers to "correct" well for top image quality and tend to be bigger and more expensive, but can be versatile and convenient. Primes are simpler and often are more easily corrected for top image quality, tend to be smaller and often offer bigger maximum apertures.

Your 18-55 is a convenient "walk-around" zoom covering a slightly wide angle to short telephoto range of focal lengths, but has a limited and variable aperture (f3.5 to 5.6). It's also lower specification in the autofocus mechanism and general build quality. It's an inexpensive kit lens. There are more expensive zooms with a wider range of focal lengths (Canon 15-85) or with a larger maximum aperture (Canon 17-55/2.8). In both cases, they are not only more expensive, but also larger and heavier, but you might expect top image quality from them.

You won't find "one lens that does it all really well". That would be huge, heavy and super expensive. The whole idea of a DSLR is the ability to change lenses to meet your particular needs. And Canon offers the largest selection of lenses of any manufacturer (plus third party manufacturers such as Tamron, Tokina and Sigma make even more lenses to fit Canon).

It depends upon what you want to shoot, the lenses you might want to choose and use.

For portraits, I like to use smaller, less intimidating prime lenses that also can have larger apertures to blur down backgrounds more, since that's often something you have little control over unless shooting in a studio. My two main portrait lenses for crop camera (like yours) are 50/1.4 and 85/1.8. But at times I use wider lenses (28/1.8 and 20/2.8) for couples, groups or wider "environmental" portraits that show people in their workplace or home or whatever. Other times for portraiture I deliberately use longer lenses (135mm, 200mm, even 300mm), either to work from farther away... perhaps for more candid shots, or to very strongly blur down the background, or for some deliberate compression of perspective.

The aperture of a lens decides how much you can blur down the background or use other shallow depth of field techniques, though this is also influenced by focal length. Of course, larger apertures also allow shooting in lower light. You have to balance it, though, because at larger apertures often lenses become less sharp and large aperture designs might be more susceptible to other issues such as chromatic aberration (where different colors of light are focused at different distances) and flare that can reduce image contrast and color saturation or add ghostlike artifacts to the image.

The shape of the lens' aperture plays a big roll in the look of blurred backgrounds, too. Generally speaking, the more perfectly round it is, the better. So, a lens with more aperture blades usually renders a nicer background blur (some lenses also uses curved blades, to further enhance this). For example, your 50mm lens has a 5-blade aperture. The more expensive Canon 50/1.4 has 8-bladed aperture and Sigma 50/1.4 has 9-bladed, whiile the premium and pricey Canon 50/1.2L has 8-bladed with curved blades. All these offer nicer "bokeh" than the inexpensive 50/1.8. But for someone just starting out and only using it occasionally, the 50/1.8 is a great introduction to prime lenses, a real bargain that takes far better images than it should, considering it's price!

You will find out that all lens choices are about compromise... The laws of physics limit what optics can do fairly rigidly and there's no getting around them. You can find super wide ranging zooms that try to cover 18-270mm all in one... but do they do any of it all that well? Those types of lenses might be fine for travel, but have fairly small apertures that limit them to use in pretty good light. And, in a zoom f2.8 is the largest aperture you will find and those zooms will necessrily be more expensive, larger and heavier. A prime lens might offer f1.4, two full stops more light... but lacks the convenience and versatility of a zoom.

There are a number of other factors to consider when shopping for lenses.

For example, I try to stick with USM lenses. This type of autofocus drive is faster, quieter and more accurate than the less expensive micro motor drive. Sigma has their own verion - HSM. And I believe Tamron has recently introduced something similar - USD - on a few lenses. This is more important on longer focal length and macro lenses, where shallower depth of field makes focus precision more critical or I'm more likely to be shooting fast moving subjects (sports) and need the speed of focus. Also, wide angle lenses only need to move their focus group slightly to achieve focus... while a telephoto lens might have to move it a long way (and macro lenses often have to move the focus group the farthest, in order to cover everything from infinity to 1:1 magnification a couple inches in front of the lens). One non-USM lens I use without any problem at all is an ultrawide zoom for crop camera... But I try to stick with USM (or it's equivalent) on most others.

Build quality is another major factor... I look for a lens that's going to hold up over the long run with regular use. And, this includes sealing against dust or moisture. Few lenses are completely sealed (maybe underwater lenses, such as the Nikonos line), but some are better than others resisting dust and/or moisture getting inside.

One of the key reasons I switched to the Canon system years ago was Image Stabilization. Canon was the first to offer this (on their 35mm film camera lenses, at that time) and it was some years before anyone else followed Canon's lead. IS is very valuable to me on telephoto lenses. I look for it and pay extra to have it on lenses approx 100mm or longer. I'd hate to be without it on 200mm and longer lenses. It's nice to have, but not as essential to me on shorter focal lengths, say below 100mm.

Little stuff matters to me, too.. such as filter size (does the lens use an odd size that means buying and carrying around more filters?) or if the lens includes or can be optionally fitted with a tripod mounting ring (telephotos and macro lenses). Close focusing distance matters, too... though it can be modified pretty easily with accessories such as macro extension tubes, with little loss of image quality.

For a whole lot more info about lenses and the Canon line in particular, you might want to go to this link (external link) and download Canon Lens Work III. It's a good resource and full of info about all the lenses Canon makes. The book is all there in PDF format... 11 separate files I believe. There's also a lot of info about lenses at the Canon Learning Center (external link). And third party lens manufacturer websites might be helpful to you, too: Sigma (external link), Tamron (external link) and Tokina (external link)

I also highly recommend anyone new to DSLRs get the book "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson (external link). Even though this is largely about making good exposures with your camera, it also goes into detail about lens selection, among other things.

Finally, if you narrow it down to a lens or two that you are considering, search for the specific lens at the Lens Sample Photo Archive sub-forum here on POTN to see images made with it and read peoples' comments. There are other websites that put lenses through exhaustive testing and post their results. Plus there is discussion ad naseum on individual websites, here on POTN and elsewhere on other websites and forums. Do a Google search for any particular lens you are considering, to get more info than you are likely to ever need or want!

See if there are any active photography Meetup groups or clubs in your area and go out and shoot with other people, to learn and grow your photography skills. Take a class. Look for some other books (there are hundreds of books on photography!). All these can be useful to expand your knowledge about lenses and how to get the most out of them.

Lenses are probably the most important factor in photography... They "make" the image. The camera behind the lens just captures it and all of them are pretty equal in quality now, as far as camaras are concerned. You'll often hear "Glass first, cameras second" here on POTN... Personally I'd rather have an excellent lens on the most entry level camera, than a cheap lens on the top-of-the-line camera that Canon makes.

EDIT: the Tamron 17-50/2.8 non-VC is a popular "budget" fast, mid-range or "walk-around" zoom. It's generally thought to have very good image quality (compares well with the far more expensive Canon 17-55/2.8 IS). It might be a little slower focusing, it lacks USM or the equivalent. Note, too, that most people don't think the more expensive Tammy 17-50/2.8 VC is as sharp as the non-VC version.

If you have some faster prime lenses at key focal lengths... such as the 50/1.8 or 50/1.4, 28/1.8, Sigma 30/1.4, etc... you might not need all that fast (f2.8) a "walk-around" zoom. Instead, simply switch to the prime lens when needed for low light or greater background blur. For example, the Canon 15-85 offers similarly high image quality with a significantly wider range of focal lengths than a 17-50 or 17-55, yet is more compact, because it's an f3.5-5.6 lens.

Along with several wider and longer lenses, I use a 24-70/2.8 and 70-200/2.8 a lot... But when I have to hike a ways and want to lighten my load... and lighting is good... I'll sometimes leave the two big L-series lenses at home and use a 28-135 instead. This old lens design is actually capable of quite good images (plus it has both IS and USM) and there are so many on the used market it can be relatively inexpensive... Some don't care for this focal length range on a crop camera, but I find the focal length range very useful. However I do complement by having a wider lens available most of the time.


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
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watt100
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Mar 18, 2012 11:43 |  #7

platforminc wrote in post #14106109 (external link)
Hi All,

I am relatively new to photography but do read a lot and sadly less practice, I have a Canon 500D with the kit lens and also a 1.8 50mm. One thing that I have not got my head around is the mm bit witin the lens, all I know is that the higher the number, the more suitable it willl be for a telephoto, so 200mm now would be for long range shots i.e birds etc.

Now for me, most of my shots are of people, either potrait or group of people in a gathering indoor etc, I also enjoy nighttime photography as well as I feel it stands out. I have been trying to find a general purpose lens that will tick the boxes, I also like photos where I can have a very shallow depth of field and pop out the subject. In view of the following, I think a 17- 50mm 2.8 Tamrom lens would be suitable, its not too expensive as I am not a comercial photographer and dont make anything from it.

But I do see other lens as well, but what I tend to pay attention to is more the f stop, so for this tamrom for example I like the fact that I can shoot at 2.8 fixed. I tried out a canon equivalent at a shop, and the results were brilliant.

Also when I see other lens i.e 18-85 3.5 - 5.6 what comes to my mind is the fact that it wouldnt be more different to my kit lens at 18-55 f3.5 - 5.6 and oftern get put off. I would like some advice, and all there seems to be in my head right now is to target a lens with a very shallow DOF.

Any advice please

I agree with the others, if you like shallow DOF use your 50mm 1.8 or get a telephoto lens. The Tamron 17-50 2.8 is a good upgrade and will give some increased DOF and it's sharper than the kit lens but most of the portrait photos with a blurred background are using a longer focal length and larger apertures.




  
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platforminc
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Mar 18, 2012 19:13 as a reply to  @ watt100's post |  #8

Thanks everyone for your post, I found it really useful and educative as well. One thing is that tht the 1.8 50mm gives good results, however most of the time where I shoot there isnt enough space, so I need the flexibility of the zoom and being able to change focal length. The 50mm meaning, is that how far I have to be from the subject, from what I last read, the 50mm is some distance on something on the lens.

Also, does anyone else use the 1.8 50mm for anything other than potraits. I used it to shoot the preparation of a wedding, whilst the shots were brilliant. I realised I couldnt fit a lot in the frame, hence the reason why I asked if anyone else used it for other kinds of shots.

Thanks.


Camera: Canon 500D, f1.8 50mm, kit lens, Tamron 17-50 f2.8 VC, 430EX flash, Remote control,Tripod, Cleaning kit.

  
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watt100
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Mar 18, 2012 19:23 |  #9

platforminc wrote in post #14109295 (external link)
Thanks everyone for your post, I found it really useful and educative as well. One thing is that tht the 1.8 50mm gives good results, however most of the time where I shoot there isnt enough space, so I need the flexibility of the zoom and being able to change focal length. The 50mm meaning, is that how far I have to be from the subject, from what I last read, the 50mm is some distance on something on the lens.

Also, does anyone else use the 1.8 50mm for anything other than potraits. I used it to shoot the preparation of a wedding, whilst the shots were brilliant. I realised I couldnt fit a lot in the frame, hence the reason why I asked if anyone else used it for other kinds of shots.

Thanks.

if you "need more space" that means you need a wider (less) focal length, e.g. 30mm instead of 50mm. DOF "depth of field" can be show by
http://www.dofmaster.c​om/dofjs.html (external link)
which is a combination of aperture, distance, focal length (and sensor size)




  
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mike_311
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Mar 18, 2012 19:24 |  #10

you may want to consider a wider prime. its hard to beat the IQ of primes and lenses don't get any faster. the 50mm on a crop body is a portrait lens.

maybe a 28 or 30mm?


Canon 5d mkii | Canon 17-40/4L | Tamron 24-70/2.8 | Canon 85/1.8 | Canon 135/2L
www.michaelalestraphot​ography.com (external link)
Flickr (external link) | 500px (external link) | About me

  
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blueskyoveraquatic
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Mar 18, 2012 19:45 |  #11

platforminc wrote in post #14109295 (external link)
Thanks everyone for your post, I found it really useful and educative as well. One thing is that tht the 1.8 50mm gives good results, however most of the time where I shoot there isnt enough space, so I need the flexibility of the zoom and being able to change focal length. The 50mm meaning, is that how far I have to be from the subject, from what I last read, the 50mm is some distance on something on the lens.

Also, does anyone else use the 1.8 50mm for anything other than potraits. I used it to shoot the preparation of a wedding, whilst the shots were brilliant. I realised I couldnt fit a lot in the frame, hence the reason why I asked if anyone else used it for other kinds of shots.

Thanks.

Your 50mm f/1.8 is effectively 80mm focal length (FL) on your camera. That is why you could not fit as many people or objects into your frame.

I recommend that your get the EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 for your camera. I do not have this lens, but I have heard many good things about this lens.


Canon 40D / 1DM3 / 1Dx / 400mm f/2.8 II / AlienBee B400 / AlienBee 22" Beauty Dish / EF 1.4x Extender / PocketWizard Plus III
Websites: flickr (external link)

  
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Need a lens for my camera, please advice
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