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Thread started 01 Apr 2012 (Sunday) 16:09
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Frustration with indoor action shooting

 
alexxn
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Apr 01, 2012 16:09 |  #1

So I'm trying to figure out what's going wrong here. I was shooting at an indoor skate park this weekend. The building had excellent fluorescent lighting, the brightest I've seen in a while, but for some reason I was having ZERO luck without using my flash which unless I angled directly forward didn't add anymore light. Even at f/2.8, 1/800, ISO2000+ I was getting dark shots. Of course at ISO2000+ I have lots of noise.

I have good glass and this was happening with both my 24-70 and my 70-200. I'm using a 50D.

Can anyone help me figure out what I'm doing wrong here ?


Nikon D4S, D3, Nikkor AF-S 50 f/1.4G, Nikkor AF-S 85 f/1.8G, Nikon AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8 G ED, Nikkor AF-S 70-200 f/2.8G E VR II
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JeffreyG
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Apr 01, 2012 16:23 |  #2

Simple, it was darker than you thought. Lighting that looks fine to your eyes is often very low for photography.

I've shot in several nice, bright gyms that were f/2.8, 1/800 and ISO 6400 for a correct exposure.

It isn't until I hit about f/2.8, 1/500 and ISO 12800 that I start to think a gym is actually too dim for adequate vision by the athletes and spectators.

Here is an example, this gym is nice and bright, it's lit by a good number of flourescent tubes (not the even uglier vapor discharge lamps). I love shooting in this gym, but this shot was f/2.8, 1/500 and ISO 8000.

IMAGE: https://photography-on-the.net/forum/images/hostedphotos_lq/2012/04/1/LQ_588493.jpg
Image hosted by forum (588493) © JeffreyG [SHARE LINK]
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DC ­ Fan
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Apr 01, 2012 16:36 |  #3

alexxn wrote in post #14191940 (external link)
Even at f/2.8, 1/800, ISO2000+ I was getting dark shots. Of course at ISO2000+ I have lots of noise. Can anyone help me figure out what I'm doing wrong here ?

Two points.

First, use a higher ISO, as high as possible.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


Focal Length: 70.0mm
Aperture: f/2.8
Exposure Time: 0.0013 s (1/800)
ISO equiv: 6400
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: Manual
Exposure Mode: Manual
White Balance: Manual
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal
Color Space: sRGB


IMAGE NOT FOUND
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


Focal Length: 97.0mm
Aperture: f/2.8
Exposure Time: 0.0005 s (1/2000)
ISO equiv: 6400
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: Manual
Exposure Mode: Manual
White Balance: Manual
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal
Color Space: sRGB


Some photographers avoid high ISO settings because of noise. The solution is to use noise reduction software, such as Imagenomic Noiseware, (external link) which was used in these images. Using a high ISO also allows using fast shutter speeds for best results for stopping motion.

The second point is to get exposure right the first time, at the event, by using a light meter. The most accurate way to get exposure settings in low-light conditions is to use a meter to take an incident reading (external link) - measuring the amount of light that falls on the subject - and to use the meter readings to adjust the camera's exposure settings. A Polaris meter (external link) was used to check the light in the above examples. Gossen (external link) also makes a small, lightweight and reasonably priced meter that performs the same function of incident light measurement.

Of course, a third option would be to purchase a faster lens, but would be of little use without an improved sense of getting the correct exposure indoors. Understanding light and metering makes up most of the solution.



  
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alexxn
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Apr 01, 2012 16:42 |  #4

Thanks for the replies, Jeffrey I see you're shooting a 1D4 which doesn't surprise me your high ISO shots look so good, DC Fan which body are you shooting ?


Nikon D4S, D3, Nikkor AF-S 50 f/1.4G, Nikkor AF-S 85 f/1.8G, Nikon AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8 G ED, Nikkor AF-S 70-200 f/2.8G E VR II
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SuzyView
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Apr 01, 2012 17:03 |  #5

You have no idea how bad the lighting is until you've shot in church buildings. The gym has the worst colors and I have to shoot at 1/200 to not have blur. So here are a few from a few weeks ago. Yes, high ISO, 7D, 70-200 2.8 IS Version II.

IMAGE: http://sbphoto1.smugmug.com/Other/Bristow-Basketball-3-24-2012/i-P54FhSz/0/XL/IMG0297-XL.jpg

It's not great, but you must push the ISO as high as you can get it. I shoot in manual. The 50D is a capable camera and the lenses you have are just amazing. Keep working at it.

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JeffreyG
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Apr 01, 2012 17:16 |  #6

alexxn wrote in post #14192086 (external link)
Thanks for the replies, Jeffrey I see you're shooting a 1D4 which doesn't surprise me your high ISO shots look so good, DC Fan which body are you shooting ?

The 1D4 is certainly very capable, but I don't necessarily need it for web sized shots. I shoot it because I make 20x30 prints from stuff at ISO 12800.

DCFan shoots a variety of cheaper bodies at high ISO and then he hits them very hard with NR. In a web sized image or small print, you will never notice the lost detail from the heavy NR.

Depending on what you are trying to do with this skating images, a similar approach might work for you. Get the exposure bright (ETTR), get the shutter speed high enough to stop motion and then use whatever ISO it takes. Then try some heavy NR application.


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alexxn
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Apr 01, 2012 17:37 |  #7

JeffreyG wrote in post #14192229 (external link)
The 1D4 is certainly very capable, but I don't necessarily need it for web sized shots. I shoot it because I make 20x30 prints from stuff at ISO 12800.

DCFan shoots a variety of cheaper bodies at high ISO and then he hits them very hard with NR. In a web sized image or small print, you will never notice the lost detail from the heavy NR.

Depending on what you are trying to do with this skating images, a similar approach might work for you. Get the exposure bright (ETTR), get the shutter speed high enough to stop motion and then use whatever ISO it takes. Then try some heavy NR application.

Good information. What image size would you recommend for web images ?


Nikon D4S, D3, Nikkor AF-S 50 f/1.4G, Nikkor AF-S 85 f/1.8G, Nikon AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8 G ED, Nikkor AF-S 70-200 f/2.8G E VR II
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JeffreyG
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Apr 01, 2012 17:39 |  #8

Something in the range of 1000 pixels on the long axis is typical for web display. With the appropriate NR and output sharpening you can make a lot of stuff look quite good at this size.


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alexxn
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Apr 01, 2012 17:59 |  #9

JeffreyG wrote in post #14192330 (external link)
Something in the range of 1000 pixels on the long axis is typical for web display. With the appropriate NR and output sharpening you can make a lot of stuff look quite good at this size.

OK great. Normally I run the images through batch in PS to 1024x768.

I just expanded my ISO to H1 and H2 so I should be good to go. I'm also going to look into Imagenomic Noiseware, probably the stand alone version. I have LR3 now but this may work better.


Nikon D4S, D3, Nikkor AF-S 50 f/1.4G, Nikkor AF-S 85 f/1.8G, Nikon AF-S 24-70mm f/2.8 G ED, Nikkor AF-S 70-200 f/2.8G E VR II
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Apr 01, 2012 18:19 |  #10

IMO winding the ISO rating up to maximum, if you can then ETTR and pull back a stop or two in post will actually give better results than having the ISO a couple of stops lower if you end up having to brighten the image at all in post. Oh and of course shoot RAW.

Al


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watt100
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Apr 01, 2012 18:23 |  #11

alexxn wrote in post #14192086 (external link)
Thanks for the replies, Jeffrey I see you're shooting a 1D4 which doesn't surprise me your high ISO shots look so good, DC Fan which body are you shooting ?

The EXIF data says T2i (550D)




  
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alexxn
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Apr 02, 2012 09:43 |  #12

Another question, is it better practice to resize first and then crop, apply noise reduction, etc ? Or should image resize be the last step ?


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Apr 02, 2012 09:54 |  #13

I do everything to the full-size image, then crop, then resize.

works for me.


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Apr 02, 2012 10:53 |  #14

Here are my shots of an indoor basketball game, first time shooting basketball. My biggest weakness in these shots was SS is to slow (IMO). I have a 7D OTW so that should help with focus.... but next time im going to bump the ISO.

http://www.flickr.com …s/sets/72157629​183521650/ (external link)


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Apr 02, 2012 11:34 |  #15

i feel your pain on this subject.. i have had issues with outdoor night deck hockey.. i shoot my 85mm @ f1.8, 1/400 (still bit of blur sometimes) and iso 1600 minimum.. and still noisy as anything.. even after post.. i want a FF camera but want more fps too (not for shoot tons and take best..)..
keep at it.. try to see how acceptable your setup is with higher iso...

i even did 12800 iso and while it was very bad zoomed in.. was acceptable zoomed out.. but was better than no picture at all...


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Frustration with indoor action shooting
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