Should I jump on this 1Dmk4 or wait?

mellofelow wrote in post #14200589
Hey guys... check my math, but there's no crop/reach advantage for the 1D4. Image of 5D3 at 22.3 cropped to APS-H = 17.2. Therefore, it still out-pixel 1D4's 16.1 - pretty even I'd say.

That's not what I'm getting.
For example, put a 200mm lens on the 1D4, that gives the same fov as if you put a 260mm lens on a FF camera, such as the 5D3 (200 x 1.3 = 260).

Now, take a shot with the 5D3 and 200mm. How much would the image have to be cropped so that it looks like a 260mm lens was used?

260/200 = 1.3, and 1.3 squared = 1.69 22.3mp/1.69 = 13.2mp

You're left with a 13mp image, not 17.

Perfectly Frank wrote in post #14200989
260/200 = 1.3, and 1.3 squared = 1.69 22.3mp/1.69 = 13.2mp

You're left with a 13mp image, not 17.

Why 1.3 squared?

2nd hand value of the 1D MK4 will go up after 1D X is released in my view, unless the 1D X is so good the crop factor becomes irrelevant, but still people will still not pay the extra for the reach

here is an email i got from denis reggie:

Denis Reggie is offering two of his Canon 1D Mark IV cameras for sale just in time for the upcoming wedding season at only $3,999 each. These beauties are shipped in original boxes and hard to tell from brand new. Each is in perfect working order and recently cleaned and calibrated by Canon.

The camera bodies (lenses not included) have reliably served Denis and team during their short lives of only 11 to 16 months of light-to-moderate use... each is in superb condition with years of reliable service in their future.

Why are these 10+ frames-per-second, 12,800+ ISO capable cameras being sold? The Reggie team is moving to the new 5D Mark III system for the coming wedding season and want common batteries and camera controls for all of their gear.

Cameras are offered with 6 month warranty via Canon's ultra-fast Platinum CPS factory service to be back on the job within days.

I did the math using the areas of each sensor to get ratios. If a FF sensor is 864 sq mm, a 1.3 sensor is 548 sq mm & the 1.6 sensor is 337 sq mm then that gives the

1.3 .6344% as many pixels as the FF sensor or about 14 Mpixels (not all are usable because it takes the full sensor size into account & camera specs show that plus a lower number as usable.

1.6 sensor yields .39% which comes out as 8.58 Mpixels (which in actual fact yields a bit less too).

Therefore the 5D3 will have roughly 13.5 Mpix vs the 16 Mpix of the 1D4.

MaDProFF wrote in post #14201293
2nd hand value of the 1D MK4 will go up after 1D X is released in my view, unless the 1D X is so good the crop factor becomes irrelevant, but still people will still not pay the extra for the reach

New camera comes out, the old one goes down in used value.

There are a LOT more uses for the camera other than shooting birds...

kevindar wrote in post #14199686
I would not. the adantages actually would be f8 autofocus, built, and fps. the reach advantage is very small, as the 5d3 has 13.2 for the area cropped to 1d4 sensor vs 16. If you really want to add reach, keep the 7d. would sell 5d2, unless you do weddings/events, and want 2 FF bodies.

For sure I will get the 5D3 but would wait a bit for the price to go down.

umphotography wrote in post #14199757
If your going to get a 5D3,, an MKIV--5D3 would be an awesome combo. In addition to what nick already mentioned, MKIV has a 300K rated shutter and its built like a tank. 5D3 and MKIV images are virtually identical up to 12000 ISO...no one will be able to tell which camera took the shots if you compared an MKIV and a 5D3 side by side. Anyone that says they can is wishful thinking.

So its really in your corner to make a decision. The more i use mine, the more i would never part with it. After seeing Nicks reviews and others on the 5D3, its the combo im leaning towards. I was going to hold out for the 1Dx, but the 5D3 look very good and files from the MKIV exceed my expectations. 5D3 files are virtually identical so now that its has a great AF system, its really personal choice which way to go.......Both will do an outstanding job. Looks like either camera is a winner from my point of view. The build of the MKIV is difficult to beat. By the time you factor a grip (if you use them) there is going to be about a 1000.00 difference in price for a new one.

OP. The one your looking at is like new. 500 clicks is nothing.....your looking at a 400.00 difference. If you offer him $4100.00 hes going to take it. Refirbs from canon,, If you can get one,, are 3900.00 from canon. The one i got had 297 on the shutter count.

The 1Dmk4 + 5D3 would be my dream combi.
I still love my 7D but just want to get better AF and better high ISO. 7D needs a lot of PP to get decent IQ.
Probably I will end up getting it but then, new camera with new technology will be out by that time.

nyc2sd wrote in post #14200480
I just picked up a low shutter count mark iv with an extra LP-e4 and the remainder of a three year Mack warranty for $3400. Prices are coming down. I also came from a 7d and the image quality is truly amazing!

That's an awesome deal if the body is in minty condition.
And I am looking for a really good/minty condition body as I plan to keep it for a long time.

MaDProFF wrote in post #14201293
2nd hand value of the 1D MK4 will go up after 1D X is released in my view, unless the 1D X is so good the crop factor becomes irrelevant, but still people will still not pay the extra for the reach

There will be more 1Dmk4 on the market so the price will go down.

People will not sell 1D MK4s to replace with a 1D X, it is the 5D's and Ds's they will replace, remember it is the end of the line at present for the 1.3 crop, my view is they will hold their price and may even go up when it is not available new on the 2nd hand market.

As good as the new 5D Mk3 is, people love that 1 series wow factor

mellofelow wrote in post #14201047
Why 1.3 squared?

Sorry, I should have explained. Here's an intuitive approach...

An image taken with the 5D3 has dimensions h (height) and w (width), and contains 22mp.
In terms of area, there are 22mp spread out over an area of h x w. So the number of pixels per unit area is 22mp/hw. This will be the same for a cropped image, also.

The ratio of 260mm to 200mm is 1.3 (260/200). This means that if an image taken with the 200mm is cropped until an object in it appears to be the same size as if a 260mm were used, then each side of the image would have to be reduced by 1.3

So the cropped image will have dimensions of (h/1.3) x (w/1.3) and will produce a new cropped area of hw/1.69 (1.3 squared) Since the pixels per unit area is still 22mp/hw, the number of pixels the cropped image contains is (hw/1.69) x 22mp/hw = 13mp. Of course, software will take this 13mp image and enlage it until it becomes h x w in size, but it will still remain a 13mp image.

I wouldn't do more than $3900 for a 1D4. "almost new" or not.... they go for $3400-$3900 on eBay all day long....of course depending on the shutter count and cosmetic cond.... a 1D4 with 50k SA's or less is still a baby....

Call me crazy, but as a hoarder, I like to keep outstanding items. From the look of it, 1D4 will be the last APS-H 1D camera and this makes it special because it is the most refined product in that line. Surely better and better 1D (or other pro level designations) will come, but IMO 1D4 will hold its place. This point is besides the comments others rightly said about 1D4's strengths.

I feel the same with 5Dc. MkII, MkIII and future models revell in performance, but the original 5D will be an icon. In the same vain, I will keep my 1V and I'm in the market for a mint T90, A1 and new F1.

I will trade my 5D2 and 7D for a 5D3 later this year

Im still pulling my hair out between the 1D 4 and a 5D 3.....

Used ID 4 price has bottomed out at this moment, get one and try it out. You can always sell it at no less, a used is a used. If you get the 5D 3 now and decide you don't like it, you likely are not going to recoup your initial investment. (disclaimer: I am selling a 1D4 so take it with a grain of salt).
If you are patient and lucky enough on eBay you probably can get one at low 3K (not mine though).

I just sold my 1div yesterday for 3850. I bought my 5d3 for 3499. I bought a 7d for 1187 shipped (clp) to replace my 1div temporarily until the 1dx is released. might even keep the 7d.....who knows.

dchen99 wrote in post #14226922
Used ID 4 price has bottomed out at this moment, get one and try it out. You can always sell it at no less, a used is a used. If you get the 5D 3 now and decide you don't like it, you likely are not going to recoup your initial investment. (disclaimer: I am selling a 1D4 so take it with a grain of salt).
If you are patient and lucky enough on eBay you probably can get one at low 3K (not mine though).

All depends on what the 1Dx is gonna look like at 12800 on a raw file. Its supposed to be 2 stops better than a 1DMKIV. I just saw some raw files that tells me its not. If thats the case, and were goona know in about 3 months, these guys that are dumping their MKIVs are gonna kick themselves in the A$$ when they find out that a 1Dx might now be as advertised. If you look at the 5D3 files v/s the MKIV files you going to see that they are virtually identicle with a slight edge going to the MKIV. Dont know what you or anyone else is seeing, but i think your foolish if your an MKIV owner to sell out at this point. Its just too good of a camera.