Help choosing lens for AAA Baseball

I just got permission today to shoot the AAA affiliate of the Boston Red Sox, the Pawtucket Red Sox... pretty excited actually. But I don't know what lens to use, so I am attaching a photo of the field for clarification:

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …s/kenjancef24/6​897726454/

Are you getting paid?

ajaffe wrote in post #14206405
Are you getting paid?

Nope. But it might lead to a paying gig. That's why I was going the rental route. Unless, if a 400 f/5.6 was going to be an answer, they are not that expensive to purchase if need be.

Good question though...

400mm f/2.8 is probably the lens found most often in baseball camera wells.

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #14206445
400mm f/2.8 is probably the lens found most often in baseball camera wells.

Ugh... I figured that lens would come up.. 3-day rental for $295. Better than buying...

They don't have camera wells in Pawtucket, and the paid question was probably more in reference to why would you do it free thinking it will lead to a paying gig? It doesn't! You rent a lens, you pay for gas, you have your time, wear on the gear, all on things you can learn at any level game without undercutting someone and actually make money at without selling yourself and the business out. Seriously you're going to pay probably close to, or over, $600 to shoot games for free?

Haven't said who you're shooting for free for, but I REALLY hope you're not giving the team images for access undercutting their team photographer (or newspaper, or anyone in the paid position)! It's a good way to instantly get your named added to the "do not work with" list in many editors minds, along with pissing off a working professional - which of course most people don't care about until it's them getting undercut and all of a sudden it's "unfair".

...but yes, Jay is right the 400 is by far the most used lens in baseball.

Yea I was alluding to that.

Think of it this way, it could lead into a paid position... at least until they find someone else to come shoot for free hoping it will lead them to a paid position.

Most importantly though this is not worth renting a lens for. Suppose you get hired, they now expect a certain level of quality from you. Now you have to purchase/rent the lens for another season. Factor in the costs of renting and shooting for free for an entire season along with renting for the next season and you might as well just buy a lens.

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #14206594
They don't have camera wells in Pawtucket, and the paid question was probably more in reference to why would you do it free thinking it will lead to a paying gig? It doesn't! You rent a lens, you pay for gas, you have your time, wear on the gear, all on things you can learn at any level game without undercutting someone and actually make money at without selling yourself and the business out. Seriously you're going to pay probably close to, or over, $600 to shoot games for free?

Haven't said who you're shooting for free for, but I REALLY hope you're not giving the team images for access undercutting their team photographer (or newspaper, or anyone in the paid position)! It's a good way to instantly get your named added to the "do not work with" list in many editors minds, along with pissing off a working professional - which of course most people don't care about until it's them getting undercut and all of a sudden it's "unfair".

...but yes, Jay is right the 400 is by far the most used lens in baseball.

Then maybe I shouldn't have said it might lead me to a paying gig. It probably won't.

BUT... I've been going there since I was 8 years old, and I've always wanted to shoot there, so I sent an email to them asking what the policy was for cameras. The guy that replied called me and said that they are always looking for people to shoot (I have no idea why...), and told me to pick games to go to and email him in advance and he would set me up. My main plan was to just go to a few games and shoot for myself, but I didn't want to get stopped at the gate for bringing in gear that isn't allowed. I never expected to get a phone call.

So for me it's kinda like a dream come true since I've always wanted to do this. Am I "undercutting" someone? I don't know. I've never shot there and I don't know what they are all about. But I am always one for NOT stepping on anyone's toes, and if things don't look right I will back out, even though I want to do it. It's not worth it to piss someone off. If I expect to move ahead as a photographer, it's not worth getting a bad name right off the bat.

In saying that, when I go there I want to do well. I want the experience. And I want to make sure I have the right gear. I'm not locked into a certain number of games. They might just change their mind and say I can do one or two games. I won't know until I go there.

Never thought a lens question would turn out this way...

As far as lenses, if it's a day time game, I would suggest the 300 f2.8 along with your 1.4 TC. That would give you a little more added flexibility with the option of two focal lengths depending on your position.
As far as the "doing it free" topic that has emerged......I guess it really depends on what you're doing with the images. If it's just a dream of yours and the images are for your private use, I think that's awesome. If the club is asking you to have free access to the images.....well that's a little shady on their part and a little naive on yours if you give them free access....especially considering that you'll be shelling out a nice amount of cash just for the opportunity to shoot. Just because it's something you would love to do doesn't mean that it doesn't have value.........my advice would be to charge fair market rates to anyone wanting access to the images.

jra wrote in post #14208090
As far as lenses, if it's a day time game, I would suggest the 300 f2.8 along with your 1.4 TC. That would give you a little more added flexibility with the option of two focal lengths depending on your position.
As far as the "doing it free" topic that has emerged......I guess it really depends on what you're doing with the images. If it's just a dream of yours and the images are for your private use, I think that's awesome. If the club is asking you to have free access to the images.....well that's a little shady on their part and a little naive on yours if you give them free access....especially considering that you'll be shelling out a nice amount of cash just for the opportunity to shoot. Just because it's something you would love to do doesn't mean that it doesn't have value.........my advice would be to charge fair market rates to anyone wanting access to the images.

Thanks for the lens advice.

As to the "free" subject, I haven't been there yet, and the guy I spoke with didn't say anything about the images, but who's to say that they might have me sign something when I get there. I have no idea what's going to happen. I'd like the images for myself, but will see what they want and examine carefully.

as a hobbying photographer, I would totally spend too much money to shoot stuff I wouldn't normally shoot - and this is something I would totally do!

I play hardball, mostly on Sundays, at a pretty nice field (Labatts Park in London, Ontario - I'm sure some of you are familiar with it)
I've often borrowed/rented longer lenses just to play with at those games (and the game before/after ours)

some people do spend money to make their hobbies more fun!

Telephoto lenses work well for baseball.

From outside first base, using a Sigma 150-500mm OS lens.

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I rarely ever shoot the typical batter's box or pitcher's windup anymore... other than aim for the pitcher from behind the batter, etc... the typical stuff is what everyone does, and I don't mind doing different...

I do target the bases a lot more too... always looking for someone diving back to 1B, or a steal at 2B/3B...
sometimes will just target an infielder... righty up to bat, I'll stay on the SS and hope to get a play... lefty up, and I'll target the 2B....

kenjancef wrote in post #14207629
Then maybe I shouldn't have said it might lead me to a paying gig. It probably won't.

BUT... I've been going there since I was 8 years old, and I've always wanted to shoot there, so I sent an email to them asking what the policy was for cameras. The guy that replied called me and said that they are always looking for people to shoot (I have no idea why...), and told me to pick games to go to and email him in advance and he would set me up. My main plan was to just go to a few games and shoot for myself, but I didn't want to get stopped at the gate for bringing in gear that isn't allowed. I never expected to get a phone call.

So for me it's kinda like a dream come true since I've always wanted to do this. Am I "undercutting" someone? I don't know. I've never shot there and I don't know what they are all about. But I am always one for NOT stepping on anyone's toes, and if things don't look right I will back out, even though I want to do it. It's not worth it to piss someone off. If I expect to move ahead as a photographer, it's not worth getting a bad name right off the bat.

In saying that, when I go there I want to do well. I want the experience. And I want to make sure I have the right gear. I'm not locked into a certain number of games. They might just change their mind and say I can do one or two games. I won't know until I go there.

Never thought a lens question would turn out this way...

It's things like this that make me glad the team I work for forwards requests like yours to me! Last season a guy volunteered to shoot for his portfolio and give it all away, told him straight out no thanks - there just isn't a need for it and his email showed no respect for himself, the business, or anyone (me) who was in the position already. Other places there sometimes is a need, but they prey too often on people willing to do it for nothing instead of hiring someone to do the job for them. Do they do it on purpose, not really - it's just them trying to do more for less...problem is they don't seem to realize they lose the good thing they have in the long run because of short sightedness.

Now, know why the team said come on out - free labor - and of course that often leads to asking the question of why they pay so and so when others are doing it free eventually costing a guy his job. PawSox have someone who shoots free already, along with their paid guy who is one of the best baseball photographers around and a guy you'd want on your side...can't speak for him, but if it was me I would not be happy finding out the team is giving out passes to anyone who will hand over images. Don't blame them, who can argue with free labor and doing more for less? Just wouldn't be happy about knowing it could negatively affect my job, my income, paying my bills, etc.

Already can hear someone saying "if you deliver quality it won't matter" - bull! Free over quality wins out a lot, especially in minor league sports where people abuse their media status and get away with it all the time because they're doing it free - yet if a paid guy did half of what they do they'd be fired immediately! See it ALL THE TIME!

So say you do shoot some, and actually want to show worth to the team - why would you go in and shoot the same thing they're paying someone else to shoot? The only outcome of that is not good, you're stepping on toes. So think outside the box and document the game in a different matter where action is not the forefront, the atmosphere is for example....#1 it fits the gear you already have, #2 it's not stepping on toes, #3 it's something different. You shooting action and then decide to stop because it's not worth the time they're not chasing after you when they have someone doing it already.

Another thing is usage, where you going to allow them to use the images - answer should be internally and limited! Say you took a photo of the starting pitcher and they want to send it to a magazine or website, even milb.com, they should not be allowed to unless you're compensated. Their site, program, etc. fine...for a limited time (in-season, not next year, not the year after, very limited). TOO many people go shoot free and then let the teams do anything and everything they want with the images, it's not a good thing.

Fact is YOU hold all the cards, you either play them right or not...giving a taste, freebie, is not always a bad thing - but how you do it can end a career before it even starts.

MJPhotos24 wrote in post #14208799
It's things like this that make me glad the team I work for forwards requests like yours to me! Last season a guy volunteered to shoot for his portfolio and give it all away, told him straight out no thanks - there just isn't a need for it and his email showed no respect for himself, the business, or anyone (me) who was in the position already. Other places there sometimes is a need, but they prey too often on people willing to do it for nothing instead of hiring someone to do the job for them.

Now, know why the team said come on out - free labor - and of course that leads to them asking the question of why they pay so and so when others are doing it free eventually costing a guy his job. PawSox have someone who shoots free already, along with their paid guy who is one of the best baseball photographers around and a guy you'd want on your side...can't speak for him, but if it was me I would not be happy finding out the team is giving out passes to anyone who will hand over images. Don't blame them, who can argue with free labor and doing more for less? Just wouldn't be happy about knowing it could negatively affect my job, my income, paying my bills, etc.

Already can hear someone saying "if you deliver quality it won't matter" - bull! Free over quality wins out a lot, especially in minor league sports where people abuse their media status and get away with it all the time because they're doing it free - yet if a paid guy did half of what they do they'd be fired immediately! See it ALL THE TIME!

So say you do shoot some, and actually want to show worth to the team - why would you go in and shoot the same thing they're paying someone else to shoot? The only outcome of that is not good, you're stepping on toes. So think outside the box and document the game in a different matter where action is not the forefront, the atmosphere is for example....#1 it fits the gear you already have, #2 it's not stepping on toes, #3 it's something different. You shooting action and then decide to stop because it's not worth the time they're not chasing after you when they have someone doing it already.

Another thing is usage, where you going to allow them to use the images - answer should be internally and limited! Say you took a photo of the starting pitcher and they want to send it to a magazine or website, even milb.com, they should not be allowed to unless you're compensated. Their site, program, etc. fine...for a limited time (in-season, not next year, not the year after, very limited). TOO many people go shoot free and then let the teams do anything and everything they want with the images, it's not a good thing.

Fact is YOU hold all the cards, you either play them right or not...giving a taste, freebie, is not always a bad thing - but how you do it can end a career before it even starts.

Thanks for that reply. I have no idea what I;m in for until I get there. My initial plan was to just shoot for myself, from the stands, paying my way in. I had emailed them because they don't have ANY photography policy on their website, and I didn't want to have to be turned away because of bringing my gear to the field. I ALWAYS ask for policy before going anywhere. I want to shoot some motocross at a local track this summer, and I've emailed the track twice, and even asked on their Facebook page, but I have gotten no reply. I am just going to go and see what happens. I know that's not on the same level as AAA baseball, but I am ALWAYS respectful of rules at venues.

That said, maybe they are just going to let me shoot from the stands, I have no idea. The guy just said to email him in advance to let him know what game(s) I want to go to.

So my ORIGINAL QUESTION, which has sorta disappeared at this point, would be what lens should I use, looking at the layout of the field. They never said that I didn't own my images. They never said where I will be shooting from. I just want to get some shots FOR ME. I WILL NOT step on toes. I WILL NOT get in the way of any other photographer. If by chance I do get to ground level, and it seems like I'm pissing someone off, I will just leave. I've done that before, and I'll do it again. But there were also times that the "paid" photographers were very nice, and we end up being friends, and I get to learn a lot.

I'm not getting upset or anything... but it's just funny how this post morphed from a simple lens question (or at least I though it was a simple question...) to photographic ethics.

At this point I'm going to say **** it and not even bother. As I had said before, it was kinda a small dream of mine to shoot there since I've grown up going there, but this is just not worth it...