Composition and all that Arty stuff - discussion thread.

Ricardo222 wrote in post #16525555
Mmmm...all those people doing their "thing", but you and the protester are the only individualists present in that scene!
And well done on the hand holding...I would have needed a tripod for that shot!

That's interesting but my initial reaction was that....the people or the runners (couldn't tell from the shot) was reacting to the signs the man was holding. Those messages are very shocking. The mass blurred people represents commotions and unstable emotions. I didn't see the man to represent himself as a self professed non-conformist challenging the herd mentality, or the masses. He looks like a victim in this photo, not a revolutionary.

OhLook wrote in post #16528056
Hey, guys, your squabbling doesn't impress.

Now, back to the topic: In elrey's latest image, I find the perspective strange because everything starts falling over as you go to the right. It's hard to say anything about the composition in general because I don't think I understand it. A couple of comments on details: (1) Having a dark area in the foreground and shooting into a lighter area adds interest for some reason, probably its resonance with an underlying profound and universal truth about human nature that everyone intuits but no one has ever articulated, or not. (2) The postures of the two walkers combine well because they have their opposite legs extended forward. When I imagine them with their matching legs forward, the result is less good.

I guess it's just a mood I get from it. I like the lines; the wall on the left, the railing, the curb, etc., and I just get a feeling of intensity and purpose in both their walks. I also like that the black mat makes it look like they could have stepped out of some secret hole in the ground.

My apologies for starting the plastic bags debacle and causing the distraction from the topic and picture at hand. My initial comment was meant to explain the presence of the plastic bags which seemed to be causing some confusion, I didn't intend to start a polemic ... of course, this is the internet.

I think I'm going to refrain from posting for a while, it doesn't seem to end well when I do.

Adieu.

Owain Shaw wrote in post #16528553
My apologies for starting the plastic bags debacle and causing the distraction from the topic and picture at hand. My initial comment was meant to explain the presence of the plastic bags which seemed to be causing some confusion, I didn't intend to start a polemic ... of course, this is the internet.

I think I'm going to refrain from posting for a while, it doesn't seem to end well when I do.

Adieu.

Don't let that stop you. He stated his opinion and was wrong. The guy who owned the bike in your photo could tell you why he did it and this idiot would still maintain his explanation was correct. Don't let one bad apple put you off of posting.

elrey2375 wrote in post #16528865
Don't let that stop you. He stated his opinion and was wrong. The guy who owned the bike in your photo could tell you why he did it and this idiot would still maintain his explanation was correct. Don't let one bad apple put you off of posting.

Stay having a bad day?? Good for you.

elrey2375 wrote in post #16527891

<cough> Be careful what you wish for. First, technically, this shot is not great. Shadows are too dark, no details. Highlights are either close to being blown out or about to be blown out. Strange distortions here. Building across and the poll on the right side. Distortions are fine if it can create a sense of cognitive dissonance. Here, it seems like the distortion was created from using a too wide lens. The cars in the front do not help much. Frankly, I am not sure what is happening here in this photo. Not getting the message. Personally, I don't like shooting people's back. Something I learn in shooting cycling photography. Of course, you are going to tell me I am all wrong but people can see what is happening here or what is not happening here......

Here is my shot with a similar theme but with a slightly better execution, I think. Of course, you can say I am wrong too. The leading line is going to the left, yours is to the right but stopped short by the parking lot. Mine is all the way to the subway station.

Ilford fp4+ with Xtol

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/vracing/1123094​8446/

OhLook wrote in post #16528056
Hey, guys, your squabbling doesn't impress.

Now, back to the topic: In elrey's latest image, I find the perspective strange because everything starts falling over as you go to the right. It's hard to say anything about the composition in general because I don't think I understand it. A couple of comments on details: (1) Having a dark area in the foreground and shooting into a lighter area adds interest for some reason, probably its resonance with an underlying profound and universal truth about human nature that everyone intuits but no one has ever articulated, or not. (2) The postures of the two walkers combine well because they have their opposite legs extended forward. When I imagine them with their matching legs forward, the result is less good.

Some seem to always have to take personal (idiot comment)

The railing in this image for us westerners, because we read left to right, creates an implied line started by the almost silhouetted people and continues to arch out of the frame and draws the eye out with it. Also the blow pure white cars in the background are also a huge distraction. So the background and that strong line are fighting for our attention.

The negativity and arguing is ruining this thread for me.

Here's an idea that you may not have considered:
If someone puts you down and says you are wrong, you don't have to respond! You can just let it go and not defend yourself and your position. I am saying this to all. It is actually ok to let someone be wrong and not correct them, even if it seems as if they are "attacking" you. That is the classy thing to do.

I do hope that this thread can continue without anyone trying to get their little digs in. Even the very subtle digs are really obvious, and cause an overall feeling of egotism and negativity to permeate this thread.

TooManyShots wrote in post #16528936

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/vracing/1123094​8446/
Scan-131205-0005 by vracing, on Flickr

I do like the line here very much. The guy on the bike starts the great swooping line that leads into the image. Then the line the curb creates brings you back. The people walking mid frame also lead you to the family in front of the Coffee Spot. Now if the person in the far right were in a light color it might force your eye out of the frame at that point but the strong thick line created by the cross walk and the person not being a bold element helps keeps the eye from following the person out of the frame and creates classic strong a triangular composition the leads you back to where you started with the guy on the bike. Nicely done....

Now, back to the topic of this thread.

Too Many,
I like your brick wall / door image. I really do like images of architectural elements that do not have any barrel distortion or "perspective distortion (a.k.a. converging lines). I do realize that there are some very minor converging lines on the brick courses on the returns to the door, but that is extremely minor and cannot be helped. But the fact that the verticals are so very "in your face" close to the camera, and yet completely straight, parallel, and, well, truly vertical, is a really cool look, and one I wish were present in many more architectural images.

The only way a critique can work is if there is open exchange about the work. When it moves from the work to calling people names on a persoanl level then it becomes an issue. If it remains on the work then the thread can move ahead and be very productive. The more we talk about these visual things the more we all get from the conversation. If it's something negative that is said about the work then image/images in question will either support the statement or not. There is no place in this thread or any for personal insults. That is what brings any thread down.

Thanks Tom and Allen. The brick wall door was interesting because the original color was purple. I had my orange filter on and so the contrast ended up very dark. I was shooting with a 24mm and there were distortions. I did my best to correct them in CS5 but you can still see a slight bulge on the door.

Elrey,

In your "walking away" image, I really do like the primary subjects, the people. I specifically like the separation between the two . . . not easy to achieve from the angle you shot from.

I also like the mat on the ground. At first glance, it almost looks like a hole in the pavement that they have just emerged from, like some type of very narrow stairway coming up from below. Cool "illusion".

The thing I find to be distracting is the perspective distortion and the way if affects the strong lines of the built elements, mainly the roofline of the far building and the verticals of the near column and all of the vertical lines. I realize there was probably little you could do to prevent this, but in my opinion it takes away from the main point of the image.

Sometimes all we can do is to take the image that is before us, even if there are elements in the scene that we do not consider favorable. Well, I suppose that technically the "unfavorable elements" were not in the scene itself. Rather, they were created by the way the camera interprets the scene.

OhLook wrote in post #16526696
One bag, sure, but a dozen? Regardless, I'm glad the green was there.

Does anyone else think the absence of horizontal lines in a scene of a built environment helps a composition? I haven't looked into it. In general, oblique lines create more interest than a straight-on grid (with exceptions, of course), but we don't usually say "I like this because it doesn't have any ______ ."

I do. In this case it helps create part of an arrow shape and that shape created by the perspective leads you to the bike. I don't think there is a lot tension but this is a cool little slice of life thing and I like this image partly because of the things I mentioned. Everything seems to be working together well. Color, design and composition are all supporting the photograph nicely. Almost everything in the frame is helping the visual statement. I also like Owain Shaws observation. I was think the same thing when I saw the bag.

Owain, the disruption wasn't your fault at all. Don't let it discourage you from participating.

TooManyShots wrote in post #16528936
Here is my shot with a similar theme. . . . The leading line is going to the left . . .

I can't single out a line as the leading one. I tend to enter at the upper left, and the only strong line near there is the wires, which don't go to any other major element. Minutes ago, after I started this post, airfrog identified the street that curves to the left as the leading line, I think, but this works only if you jump down to the bike rider and go from there.