Composition and all that Arty stuff - discussion thread.

jetcode wrote in post #16613693
In terms of composition this is good. The blue is a bit overwhelming (cyan influence and saturation) and I see sharpening halos on your huts.

Thanks for the input. Think I'm going to try to re edit it this weekend. I couldn't quite get the sky the way I wanted it.

Cheers

Joe,

I was answering your question and have answered it several times. Maybe it's just not what you want to hear?

I think being honest is first understanding what you and your work is about. WHY is always the first question you should be able to answer. Then after why does the work support the why? Is everything in the image helping or hurting that statement. Then are you in the work or is it just a copy of someone else's work? After you have gone beyond technique which is the easy part of all of this it's the seeing and being able to capture that vision that is so infinitely difficult.

Its's not a lot different from a great musician or someone with a great voice. At what point can you move beyond what's actually written and put an interpretation on the work that sounds unique? At what point does a singers voice truly become their own? Or a horn player able to make the music theirs?

2000 plus years of two dimensional work at what point can you take the language that you have come to understand and everything that is you and express yourself? This could be the most difficult thing an artist does but probably the most important part. Someone that can do this is truly special. Not the norm. The norm are just happy to get a technically good image.

The true artist is way beyond that. He understands that even a technically flawed image, brush strokes in a painting, the use of slang in literature, a chisel mark in a sculpture, might be the things supporting what he is trying to say artistically and has come to understand what is really important.

Allen

PS Joe how do you know when you are so close to your own work if it is really working in the larger sense? That you are not missing the forest for the tree? That's why it is so important to have friends that are also artist and photographers that you trust, who you respect and will be honest and people you can critique work with. It can be a great way to weed through things.

Also you could do what Winogrand would do. He would wait a long time to process things to see them again with fresh eyes that were less attached. I tend to do what Arbus did, though I don't cover my living room walls with work prints to see what would stand the test of constant viewing, my wife wouldn't stand for that but I spend a lot of time with the work.

In my show last April when I started to hang it I pulled 3 pieces that weren't working with the others. I hadn't seen the show as a whole. I didn't have the space to get the feel for it so when I saw them all together i could see those were just not working with the other pieces. Sometimes what you leave out is just as important as what you include.

icebat wrote in post #16613742
Thanks for the input. Think I'm going to try to re edit it this weekend. I couldn't quite get the sky the way I wanted it.

Cheers

Definitely over sharpened.

More "space" from me.

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …56709879@N07/11​338346913/

^^^^^Works for me....

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16613793
^^^^^Works for me....

The space does that one good.

jetcode wrote in post #16613717
I prefer the first one to the second. You may find some improvement by cropping the right side grayish blob out but the balance is good.

Color in composition is more difficult to manage in nature. The ideal is captured complements or various shades and hues of a same color or colors such as we would see in the turning of leaves in fall. In B/W that aspect is eliminated and we are left with pure tone and shape. I find that the background color competes fairly hard with the subject and this acts as a displacement of focus in my eye. One trick is to desaturate the background color which will allow the subject to be more pronounced.

I don't want to mess with the first one. I really like the square.
I liked the colors in the second one, but I see what you mean. It is at f8. I also have the same shot at f5.6 which is even worse. lol

Do you think this one is better on account of color contrast and less distracting bokeh?

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …12742168@N08/11​998251506/

bugadrienne I guess my question to you is which one do you like and why? What are you trying to say visually and which one best captures that? Why did you take the photograph? Let's start there.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16613835
bugadrienne I guess my question to you is which one do you like and why? What are you trying to say visually and which one best captures that? Why did you take the photograph? Let's start there.

I was actually thinking about shooting that mimosa with the bougainvillea background for around a week. Hehe. I liked the soft and colorful feel to it as I walked past. That first one was SOOC and I thought it was a little loud, thought I should slightly desaturate the whole photo, but decided the warm color looked kinda cool. The light that morning was changing from warm to cool and back by the second with the wind and clouds going past the sun.

Now that jetcode pointed out the lack of subject pop, it does kind of make my cooler toned shot look better to me. I guess if I were trying to reach someone else, I would go with the photo that had more contrast. I actually like, and planned the first one, but I think simpler might be better as far as nature and photos like that go. Still like the results of the planned one, though.

I like the one this page best. Do you think that best captures what you were trying to say visually?

Is there anything in post that you could do to help what you are trying to say?

armis wrote in post #16613121
Jesus Christ, this spot is the only thing anyone talks to me about! I already toned it way down compared to the initial shot, I guess I'll just paint the whole area black and be done with it.

You could always clone it out.

Owain Shaw wrote in post #16613474
And I'd say the contrary. For me the original has it.

My opinion too. I prefer the original.

jetcode wrote in post #16613572
How much confirmation bias is introduced because it's your art we are discussing? In other words if someone else shot the bicycle image would you have a different criteria for evaluating the image? . . .

I had to deal with this in my world (and still do) because I found that my bias was crippling the integrity of my vision. I could shoot crap and still find a way to elevate it to stardom.

I can certainly overvalue an image because I made it. The opposite also happens. And my standards change by at least a little every week, changing what I think about older work. I hope they change in the direction of greater sophistication.

icebat wrote in post #16613596
Grabbed this shot on my first day of vacation in Cancun. What caught my eye was the repeating pattern of the beach huts going down the beach and the bird sitting on the far left. What do you guys think?

I think it's effective and striking. This was a good choice of moments to record. I agree with the comments above about sky color and sharpening.

jetcode wrote in post #16613681
What I see most in your work is combining the ambiance of art with raw elements of the real world. . . . You may have something vitally important to pursue in that coupling of perspective.

That's the first time you've said anything good about what I've shown. Thank you.

One thing I'd like to say in that photo is, we might think of the reflections as illusory and the building as real, but in fact all the light is reflected except the light in the sign and the doorway fixtures. The light coming from the reflections differs from the light on the walls only in having taken one more bounce. It's the same kind of stuff, it enters your pupils the same way and makes its contribution to what you see.

JakAHearts wrote in post #16613774
More "space" from me.

This tells me that marriage is extremely scary, a leap into the unknown, and the young man faces it petrified but resolute.

jetcode wrote in post #16613572
In other words if someone else shot the bicycle image would you have a different criteria for evaluating the image?The outsider to the m oment captured?

Joe as far as the bike shot goes I got confirmation of why I liked it beyond my own evaluating by receiving a Mark of Excellence Award out of 1300 other images by someone that saw what I saw when I shot it. So I guess I'm not the only one that found merit in the image. A pretty tough contest at that. Also I got very good feedback from a critique with friends that also confirmed what I saw in the image also got some feedback here on POTN long before I submitted it to the contest. Just confirms my developed instincts in that case were indeed right.

Now if someone else shot the image and I was evaluating it I would use the same things I explained earlier for the reason I thought it was a good composition and why it worked on that level. We will never know for sure because I shot it but those are things I do look when looking at work.

airfrogusmc wrote in post #16613901
I like the one this page best. Do you think that best captures what you were trying to say visually?

Is there anything in post that you could do to help what you are trying to say?

Nope. I was trying to capture both flora in the frame. It is busy and distracting, but I wanted to share the fact that that corner of my block has both of those types of flowers. In person, it is really distracting, and a sight to see. Those flowers are branching out into the sidewalk path and will be right in the face when one walks there. lol


No, it already does, but I may be able to post process to make it more attractive at first glance, with a more popping subject. Maybe some shadows with a subtle vignette that I don't know how to make.

I think with what you have described this approach is better and you still got color from other sources which does show there are other colorful objects in the scene. You leave it to the viewer to form his own version of the corner.

I would maybe bring down the green bud/leaf on the left side a bit if you can. If not leave as is.