Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 04 Apr 2012 (Wednesday) 08:26
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Composition and all that Arty stuff - discussion thread.

 
Tom ­ Reichner
"I am a little creepy"
Avatar
11,948 posts
Gallery: 138 photos
Best ofs: 1
Likes: 2759
Joined Dec 2008
Location: Omak, in north-central Washington state, USA
     
Oct 29, 2017 22:21 as a reply to  @ post 18484120 |  #3826

.
I would have no idea that those were eviction notices, or that this was even under a bridge, if your text did not accompany the photo.

To me it looks like a concrete wall, presumably of a building. And the clean, litter-free ground in front of the wall makes me think of a well-kept area, possibly new construction in a trendy suburb, with permits or building specs affixed to the wall. . It certainly doesn't look like an urban area where vagrants and homeless folks gather.

I think some "supporting elements" would be useful in conveying your message to your viewership. . But if these supporting elements are not there, then you don't want to "fake it" by importing cardboard boxes, rubbish, etc.

It's just one of those areas that doesn't look at all like what it really is, so it'd be really difficult to convey thoughts and feelings about homeless people strictly via visual imagery - and even more difficult through a single still photo. . A series, perhaps, shot over time, may do a great job of communicating what you want to communicate, especially if it shows frames from days/weeks prior, with homeless folks camping out there. . And if presented as a series, a close-up of one of the notices would make it clear to the viewer that they are eviction notices, and not building permit postings.

So, no matter what angle you shoot it from, I don't think it conveys what you want it to convey, because the supporting content just wasn't there at the time you shot it.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
OhLook
Spiderwoman
Avatar
16,705 posts
Gallery: 70 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 3746
Joined Dec 2012
Location: California: SF Bay Area
     
Oct 29, 2017 22:59 |  #3827

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18484316 (external link)
I think the rectangles are all working well together. I like the fact it isn't shot straight on because there is a sense tension. I think it needs to be really large and maybe large as to be able to read the notes and might work really well in a project about the homeless.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18484354 (external link)
.I would have no idea that those were eviction notices, or that this was even under a bridge, if your text did not accompany the photo. . . . A series, perhaps, shot over time, may do a great job of communicating what you want to communicate, especially if it shows frames from days/weeks prior, with homeless folks camping out there.

Thank you both for your thoughts. I agree that the image needs context. I originally posted it in Urban Fragments, with explanatory text and with this below it to show the documents:


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.

The trouble is, the wide-angle scene needs to be shot from a distance to get its bleakness in, but then you can't read the notices.

This is a location 1 or 2 miles away where copies of the same notices were posted:


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


I didn't see the first location when people were still camping there. It had been cleared out.

PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | IMAGE EDITING OK

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
davesrose
Title Fairy still hasn't visited me!
3,226 posts
Likes: 357
Joined Apr 2007
Location: Atlanta, GA
Post edited 7 months ago by davesrose. (4 edits in all)
     
Oct 29, 2017 22:59 as a reply to  @ post 18484120 |  #3828

Especially viewing at web size, I would say the space doesn’t convey message. The passing viewer is not going to know those are eviction papers. After reading your description, I can understand what you’re going after. We have no context about eviction papers or that this was a spot where people camped. IMO, it’s better to find intimate subjects. My great grandfather was actually a painter in Pittsburgh and is known for regional paintings in the 30s (depression era). This was a painting made from a situation he sketched.


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Canon 5D mk III , 7D mk II
EF 135mm 2.0L, EF 70-200mm 2.8L IS II, EF 24-70 2.8L II, EF 50mm 1.4, EF 100mm 2.8L Macro, EF 16-35mm 4L IS, Sigma 150-600mm C, 580EX, 600EX-RT, MeFoto Globetrotter tripod, grips, Black Rapid RS-7, CAMS plate and strap system, Lowepro Flipside 500 AW, and a few other things...
smugmug (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Owain ­ Shaw
Some of my best friends are people.
Avatar
2,012 posts
Gallery: 28 photos
Likes: 572
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Valencia, Spain.
     
Oct 30, 2017 04:44 |  #3829

OhLook, I like the idea and I've seen you post a few of these (with that little bit of accompanying information) in the Urban Fragments thread. It's an interesting subject and an interesting mini-series.

I think that part of its potential strength comes from its subtlety and the fact that these areas are nondescript and don't have any visible markers within social norms and expectations of homelessness. Homelessness needn't be a synonym for squalor (something often seen in homeowners and renters too) and the homeless community sadly comprises many people, down on their luck, who haven't always been homeless and hopefully won't be for too long into the future - though programmes to help are increasingly needed. The photographs can become about what isn't there, and homelessness is often an 'invisible' problem for too many of us, and I need to include myself here. Subtlety is good, in my opinion. There's far too much obvious work, including about homelessness, and good photography shouldn't be immediately obvious but it should ultimately be understandable.

One of the videos that (I think it must have been) airfrogusmc posted over the years states that no one photograph tells a story - they depict a situation but they don't tell the story on their own, you need other information to get that and I think this is part of what you're up against here. If you shoot close to get the details of the notices, you lose their context. If you shoot them in context, the details that are important to understanding the photograph become illegible.

One option would be a large format print or display, enabling the interested viewer to get closer and examine the notices. Another option might be a series. One photograph in said series could be a cold, objective close-up of the notices - maybe even a diptych as they are in two languages. Then you proceed to the photographs of the notices in context. This wouldn't be an unusual format for an exhibition - even including a physical copy of an original would be within normal bounds - or for a web piece.

Since we're here for "all that Arty stuff" as well, one other idea might be something along the lines of a Victor Burgin text and image piece.
http://www.bbc.co.uk …/06/18/burgin_4​16x300.jpg (external link)
https://courses.washin​gton.edu …ordsinimages/ma​rlboro.jpg (external link)

I am partial to Burgin's work myself, and I like his photographs independently of the text - which would be an important part of any such project. The images and the text need to work, and then work together. Here the text could easily come from the eviction notices themselves, of course.

In any case, I would encourage you to keep at it.


| Photographic for the People - New website coming soon. |
| Gear | Flickr (external link) |

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
35,552 posts
Gallery: 127 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 4198
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
Post edited 7 months ago by airfrogusmc.
     
Oct 31, 2017 10:15 |  #3830

One of the all time great color photography books and bodies of work.

Click on American Color 2. It is worth the time spent looking.

https://pro.magnumphot​os.com …ID=2S5RYDYR2KI4​&POPUPPN=1 (external link)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
OhLook
Spiderwoman
Avatar
16,705 posts
Gallery: 70 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 3746
Joined Dec 2012
Location: California: SF Bay Area
     
Oct 31, 2017 11:45 |  #3831

davesrose wrote in post #18484371 (external link)
IMO, it’s better to find intimate subjects. My great grandfather was actually a painter in Pittsburgh and is known for regional paintings in the 30s (depression era). This was a painting made from a situation he sketched.

That painting is moving (no pun intended) in a different way. My shots rarely include people. For homelessness particularly, (1) I don't want to feel I'm taking advantage of people in bad situations, (2) I'm wary about my safety, and some people in those situations can't be trusted.

Owain Shaw wrote in post #18484464 (external link)
OhLook, I like the idea. . . . It's an interesting subject and an interesting mini-series. . . .

One option would be a large format print or display, enabling the interested viewer to get closer and examine the notices. Another option might be a series.

Thank you. The various images (including any to be taken in the future) do form a series just by being related, but you're suggesting some kind of public display, for which I have no platform. I also don't have a pro-quality camera and don't make prints.

I appreciate your comments about subtlety. Plenty of photos of homeless people are around, including images used in news stories. I'm more interested in scenes that imply the human situation.

My original question was specifically about whether the relative sizes of vertical and horizontal elements worked to convey a sense of constraint. Was I asking too much of these shapes?


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | IMAGE EDITING OK

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
35,552 posts
Gallery: 127 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 4198
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Oct 31, 2017 15:12 |  #3832

I think the shapes all work so very well together and nice framing on your part and in the context of other images that could help solidify your message it could be extremely effective.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
AZGeorge
Goldmember
Avatar
2,162 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 441
Joined Dec 2010
Location: Southen Arizona
     
Oct 31, 2017 18:57 |  #3833

Owain Shaw wrote in post #18482115 (external link)
. . .How and when do you decide what to print? What do you then do with it? Anything related to printing work on an ongoing basis, rather than a one off print.

Like many, most of my recent work never sees printing.

Many of my large prints these days are for charity or other organizational auctions. When the print fetches a bundle I know it was right. Either that or the charity has generous supporters. <G>

In general, I recommend "print and donate" to shooters like you and me who don't need the funds but do what the work to amount to something. These days, a "Printed from Film" on the card could well earn your favorite group at least a few extra dollars.


George
Democracy Dies in Darkness

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Owain ­ Shaw
Some of my best friends are people.
Avatar
2,012 posts
Gallery: 28 photos
Likes: 572
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Valencia, Spain.
Post edited 7 months ago by Owain Shaw.
     
Nov 01, 2017 04:07 |  #3834

OhLook wrote in post #18485482 (external link)
That painting is moving (no pun intended) in a different way. My shots rarely include people. For homelessness particularly, (1) I don't want to feel I'm taking advantage of people in bad situations, (2) I'm wary about my safety, and some people in those situations can't be trusted.

Thank you. The various images (including any to be taken in the future) do form a series just by being related, but you're suggesting some kind of public display, for which I have no platform. I also don't have a pro-quality camera and don't make prints.

I appreciate your comments about subtlety. Plenty of photos of homeless people are around, including images used in news stories. I'm more interested in scenes that imply the human situation.

My original question was specifically about whether the relative sizes of vertical and horizontal elements worked to convey a sense of constraint. Was I asking too much of these shapes?

You never know when the right piece of work may fall under the right eyes. In any case, I did later (albeit tagged on the end but it was more a part of my thinking than I actually expressed) suggest a web piece ... I think we all have the public platform to make that happen these days. It could be done through a (photo)blog rather than a webpage.

On a related matter, and also related to the subsequent post by AZGeorge about charity, my brother got me an excellent Christmas gift last year. It was a calendar produced by a charity organisation in London. The organisation gives homeless, or sheltered accomodation tenants, disposable cameras for a competition, and produces a calendar of the winning photographs. The project is run by CafeArt (external link).

I think the composition is effective as a composition, as an image, but I can't say that it conveyed those ideas to me - but I think that isn't the way I normally respond to images.


| Photographic for the People - New website coming soon. |
| Gear | Flickr (external link) |

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
twoshadows
Liquid Nitrogen
Avatar
6,219 posts
Gallery: 34 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 827
Joined Jul 2007
Location: Sinning in paradise
Post edited 5 months ago by twoshadows.
     
Dec 27, 2017 16:34 |  #3835

OhLook wrote in post #18484120 (external link)
Soliciting opinions on whether a compositional choice about space subliminally enhances a message. The papers on the wall are eviction notices and flyers about sources of help for homeless people formerly camping there, under an urban freeway. Camera's native ratio is 4:3. In cropping to 5:4, I chose to make the right-hand stretch of concrete much narrower than the left-hand one, as a physical correlate of the shrinkage of options for people who shelter in such places as they get thrown out of one area after another. The position I shot from, left of center rather than straight on, I hope has a similar effect, because the tonal bands on the wall diminish toward the right.

Now, does this sort of thing work? At least, did it work in this image? Do the shapes and sizes convey deprivation and desperation better than if I'd stood squarely in front of the papers and made a symmetrical picture?
thumbnail
Hosted photo: posted by OhLook in
./showthread.php?p=184​84120&i=i196614450
forum: General Photography Talk

To me, the beauty of wide angle is the perspective. My first thought for this type of shot is to find a notice that is far enough away (or placed far enough away) so that you can get a close up with the others in the bg. If I'm not making sense let me know and I will illustrate. :)

On a personal note - I love what you are doing. <3


Miss Julia Grey
xgender.net (external link)
I'm non-binary - please refer to me as she/her/Miss

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
35,552 posts
Gallery: 127 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 4198
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
Dec 27, 2017 17:15 |  #3836

IMAGE: http://www.pbase.com/airfrogusmc/image/166750651.jpg



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
OhLook
Spiderwoman
Avatar
16,705 posts
Gallery: 70 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 3746
Joined Dec 2012
Location: California: SF Bay Area
     
Dec 27, 2017 19:37 |  #3837

twoshadows wrote in post #18527480 (external link)
To me, the beauty of wide angle is the perspective. My first thought for this type of shot is to find a notice that is far enough away (or placed far enough away) so that you can get a close up with the others in the bg. If I'm not making sense let me know and I will illustrate. :)

On a personal note - I love what you are doing. <3

Thank you.

Not sure I'm visualizing your "first thought" as you imagine it. One could shoot close to a single notice to make it legible, at an angle not 90°, and have the others blur out in the background, but that would sacrifice the larger scene. I wanted to include some of the dirt and the concrete surroundings to show how bleak the place was.

Did you see this one from yesterday? https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=18526797


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | IMAGE EDITING OK

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
OhLook
Spiderwoman
Avatar
16,705 posts
Gallery: 70 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 3746
Joined Dec 2012
Location: California: SF Bay Area
     
Dec 27, 2017 19:38 |  #3838

airfrogusmc wrote in post #18527500 (external link)
QUOTED IMAGE

That's quite a dance they're all doing.


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | IMAGE EDITING OK

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
twoshadows
Liquid Nitrogen
Avatar
6,219 posts
Gallery: 34 photos
Best ofs: 4
Likes: 827
Joined Jul 2007
Location: Sinning in paradise
     
Dec 27, 2017 23:32 |  #3839

OhLook wrote in post #18527586 (external link)
Thank you.

Not sure I'm visualizing your "first thought" as you imagine it. One could shoot close to a single notice to make it legible, at an angle not 90°, and have the others blur out in the background, but that would sacrifice the larger scene. I wanted to include some of the dirt and the concrete surroundings to show how bleak the place was.

Did you see this one from yesterday? https://photography-on-the.net …showthread.php?​p=18526797

The other nice thing about wide angle is the DoF. :)

At 6mm, f/8, from 2 feet away on your g15, you have infinite DoF on the long end. So the BG will be in focus. The only question comes down to distance - how far away from the bg does the readable flyer need to be to get the proper framing of said bg.


Here is a not-so-good example...


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Shot wide. Had I closed down the aperture I could have had infinite DoF, making the boat more discernible. Also, in your case you don't need the whole flyer - just enough to make clear what is on the flyers in the bg. This means the readable flyer doesn't have to dominate the image and the bg can still be a strong element.

Compositionally, something more like this...


HOSTED PHOTO
please log in to view hosted photos in full size.


Hope this helps - let me know if otherwise. :)

Miss Julia Grey
xgender.net (external link)
I'm non-binary - please refer to me as she/her/Miss

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
OhLook
Spiderwoman
Avatar
16,705 posts
Gallery: 70 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 3746
Joined Dec 2012
Location: California: SF Bay Area
     
Dec 28, 2017 00:04 as a reply to  @ twoshadows's post |  #3840

Julian, I'm not doing well at transferring your illustration to the space I was shooting in. You show how to combine readable text in the foreground with a view of something in the background. But the eviction notices were all on more or less the same plane, lined up against a solid concrete wall. The boat is far behind the sign about mussels. What's behind a flyer is just a wall, not the other flyers.


PRONOUN ADVISORY: OhLook is a she. | A FEW CORRECT SPELLINGS: lens, aperture, amateur, hobbyist, per se, raccoon, whoa, more so (2 wds.), shoo-in | IMAGE EDITING OK

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

379,844 views & 92 likes for this thread
Composition and all that Arty stuff - discussion thread.
FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is shaikh
817 guests, 258 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 6430, that happened on Dec 03, 2017

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.