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Thread started 05 Apr 2012 (Thursday) 03:59
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More or Less keepers when shot in Live View?

 
BaghdadFred
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Apr 05, 2012 03:59 |  #1

I do a lot of event photography and award ceremonies. For awards the standard formula in the Military is what we call the "Grip and Grin" shot. I will take 2-3 shots in quick succession to account for blinking and looking in the wrong direction which always happens. There is almost never enough time for more shots on any single person and the 3-Star waits for no one!

I very rarely use Live mode on my camera but a certain percentage of these shots no matter how hard I try end up with an out of focus shot. We can easily run through 20 people with the same exposure and I will typically get a 2 or so which are a bit OOF. I can't always prevent people blinking or looking away but I'd surely like to increase my keeper rate. Using Live View with face recognition, although certainly slower just wondering if this will decrease or increase on the percentage of keepers. There is certainly not do-overs in this type of photography so its critical that I get the focus correct at the very least.

The Grip and Grin... Framing not great but in focus.

IMAGE: http://baghdadfred.smugmug.com/CeremoniesandEvents/Awards-Promotions/2012-02-20-FEBRUARY-SERVICE/i-QVq4rXt/0/XL/20120220-MG2134-XL.jpg

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oldvultureface
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Apr 05, 2012 05:20 |  #2

If you can afford a few extra seconds per shot, yes, live view/face detect will yield more if not all keepers. And you'll be able to see what the camera focused on whereas with phase detect/optical viewfinder you're never quite sure what the camera picked.




  
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kimboy
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Apr 05, 2012 06:58 |  #3

Keep the focus point on when viewing images to know whether one method is yeilding better results than another.




  
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stsva
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Apr 05, 2012 09:19 |  #4

Your sample shot looks pretty sharp, but according to the EXIF it was shot at f/3.5, 1/125 sec., and ISO 1600 with flash. Why f/3.5 and ISO 1600 with flash? Assuming an external flash, I probably would have shot at f/7.1 or f/8, 1/200 or 1/250, and ISO 200 with the flash providing virtually all the light for the image. Other than the flags, which should have been lit by the flash, there's no real background that you'd want illuminated by ambient light. As to live view versus normal focus, as noted above you should get the most accuracy in focus with live view, but it will be slower.


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John ­ from ­ PA
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Apr 05, 2012 13:25 |  #5

I'm going to guess that although you used flash, it was bounced off the ceiling so was more or less fill, and the overall lighting forced you up in ISO and down on aperture and shutter speed.

I have found I do better in Live View (with a 60D) and particularly with overall composition. I feel I use the viewfinder for "quicker" composition type subject matter and then settle for less than optimum composition.

Thank everyone for their service; as I point of interest I took the 1st Cavalry to Vietnam in 1965 while in the Navy. I see the "one-star" Roberts is 1st Calvary.




  
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garycoleman
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Apr 05, 2012 14:06 |  #6

Live view is more accurate when I used it in the XSi, 60d, and 7d.


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Apr 05, 2012 14:19 |  #7

I tryed it with handheld 500D, doesn't work for me. Takes too long to take picture with LV on my camera. With camera on the tripod it is fine.


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jthomps123
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Apr 05, 2012 14:23 |  #8

no matter how hard I try end up with an out of focus shot. We can easily run through 20 people with the same exposure and I will typically get a 2 or so which are a bit OOF.

Thats just the nature of the 7D's af accuracy in my experience.


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BaghdadFred
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Apr 05, 2012 15:29 |  #9

stsva wrote in post #14214013 (external link)
Your sample shot looks pretty sharp, but according to the EXIF it was shot at f/3.5, 1/125 sec., and ISO 1600 with flash. Why f/3.5 and ISO 1600 with flash? Assuming an external flash, I probably would have shot at f/7.1 or f/8, 1/200 or 1/250, and ISO 200 with the flash providing virtually all the light for the image. Other than the flags, which should have been lit by the flash, there's no real background that you'd want illuminated by ambient light. As to live view versus normal focus, as noted above you should get the most accuracy in focus with live view, but it will be slower.

Your not the first to comment about the settings. In this room I use a bounce flash in E-TTL mode. The ceiling is pretty high in this room, perhaps 18 feet. Using a bounce flash in E-TTTL mode at the settings your describing will look absolutely black in this room (I've tried it before)

Alternatively I sometimes shoot at 1/4 flash in manual mode. I can use a lower ISO but it also doesn't give a very pleasant exposure to the subject.

I've do a ton of events in this room. I recently ordered a 3rd manual flash coming in the mail in a couple weeks. I think next event I'll try setting up 2 remotes and a 3rd on camera flash in E-TTL and try some higher F-STOP settings.


Fred - Photographing everyday Military life in Iraq (external link) | SmugMug (external link)
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paulkaye
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Apr 05, 2012 15:34 |  #10

It's more or fewer - just thought you'd appreciate the pedantry :)


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BaghdadFred
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Apr 05, 2012 15:39 |  #11

I stand corrected sir! :D

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mjmackinnon
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Apr 05, 2012 16:06 |  #12

you might try getting a larger defuser for your flash and fire directly at them to improve the lighting. That way you'd bump your f3.5 to f8 and the keepers to 100%.

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just a thought for you anyways.


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stsva
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Apr 05, 2012 18:34 |  #13

BaghdadFred wrote in post #14215901 (external link)
Your not the first to comment about the settings. In this room I use a bounce flash in E-TTL mode. The ceiling is pretty high in this room, perhaps 18 feet. Using a bounce flash in E-TTTL mode at the settings your describing will look absolutely black in this room (I've tried it before)

Alternatively I sometimes shoot at 1/4 flash in manual mode. I can use a lower ISO but it also doesn't give a very pleasant exposure to the subject.

I've do a ton of events in this room. I recently ordered a 3rd manual flash coming in the mail in a couple weeks. I think next event I'll try setting up 2 remotes and a 3rd on camera flash in E-TTL and try some higher F-STOP settings.

I was wondering if maybe you had a high ceiling and that was the issue. I wasn't criticizing, just wondering what was going on - thanks for explaining. There are some threads in the wedding photography forum on using remote flashes for things like receptions - some of those might have some helpful tips.


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JeffreyG
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Apr 05, 2012 19:53 |  #14

BaghdadFred wrote in post #14215901 (external link)
Your not the first to comment about the settings. In this room I use a bounce flash in E-TTL mode. The ceiling is pretty high in this room, perhaps 18 feet. Using a bounce flash in E-TTTL mode at the settings your describing will look absolutely black in this room (I've tried it before)

I can't put my finger on it, but something is wrong here. I've shot bounced flash in gymnasiums with 30+ feet ceilings using settings in the range of f/5.6 and ISO 1600 and a 430 EX was able to light the scene.

I wonder why you are lacking flash power. An 18' ceiling means the light path from flash to subjects is less than 15 meters. Allowing for the bounce diffusion to eat half the light, you shoud still have a GN of 20 meters or so.

With a GN of 20 meters, ISO 1600 and f/3.5 your range is 22 meters. The path from you to the subjects is a mere 13 meters. Basically, you should be good to at least f/5.6.


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ejenner
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Apr 05, 2012 20:02 as a reply to  @ JeffreyG's post |  #15

LV is still slow and holding the camera like that will necessitate higher shutter speeds or IS. But it will be more accurate more of the time.

Personally I would try to get the aperture up to f5.6 to allow for slight AF errors.


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More or Less keepers when shot in Live View?
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