Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
Thread started 07 Apr 2012 (Saturday) 20:33
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

exposure meter

 
Bonobo
Hatchling
3 posts
Joined Apr 2012
     
Apr 07, 2012 20:33 |  #1

Hi everyone, Im new to the forums and glad I found them. I hope to learn and gain some new knowledge and share any I may have.
I am a uni student and part of my degree involves photography. Im relatively new to photography so please forgive me if I don't use correct terminology at times.

I recently purchased a Canon 7D which Ive ben enjoying learning about but today I have a question about exposure which is confusing me.
I have ben trying to take some photos on manual and perhaps I am mistaken but Im sure my teacher said to use the exposure meter and when the line is in the centre the exposure is correct but I have noticed that when the line is in the middle my images are over exposed. Im not sure why?
Also I have noticed that the exposure meter when it moves left to right sometimes two lines appear then disappear. Not sure why there are two line?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
windpig
Chopped liver
Avatar
15,933 posts
Gallery: 7 photos
Likes: 2277
Joined Dec 2008
Location: Just South of Ballard
     
Apr 07, 2012 20:46 |  #2

What metering mode are you using?


Would you like to buy a vowel?
Go ahead, spin the wheel.
flickr (external link)
I'm accross the canal just south of Ballard, the town Seattle usurped in 1907.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
yogestee
"my posts can be a little colourful"
Avatar
13,845 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 41
Joined Dec 2007
Location: Australia
     
Apr 07, 2012 21:07 as a reply to  @ windpig's post |  #3

Under and over exposure of the subject can be caused by the tonality of the subject. For example, if you are photographing a polar bear in a snow storm and totally rely on the exposure meter without compensation, your scene will be underexposed. If you are photographing a black cat against a dark background and totally rely on your meter, your scene will be overexposed.

The reason behind this is, that exposure meters are designed to only read 18% reflectance grey, and nothing else, which is about a mid point grey. It's up to the photographer to read the scene and make adjustments accordingly.


Jurgen
50D~EOS M50 MkII~EOS M~G11~S95~GoPro Hero4 Silver
http://www.pbase.com/j​urgentreue (external link)
The Title Fairy,, off with her head!!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
John ­ from ­ PA
Cream of the Crop
11,262 posts
Likes: 1530
Joined May 2003
Location: Southeast Pennsylvania
     
Apr 07, 2012 21:47 |  #4

You've learned a critical thing about judging exposure..."when the line is in the centre the exposure" may be incorrect. Each opportunity has to be judged on its own merits.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Gregg.Siam
Goldmember
Avatar
2,383 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Jun 2010
Location: Bangkok
     
Apr 07, 2012 21:58 as a reply to  @ John from PA's post |  #5

What yogestee said. There are many things that will throw off the exposure meter. Color of clothes, contrasts, etc...

I've found that the histogram is a more accurate representation and lean towards that.


5D MKIII | 24-105mm f/4 L| 50mm f/1.8 | 600EX-RT [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=bl​ue][FONT="]|
∞ 500px (external link)
flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MakisM1
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,778 posts
Gallery: 50 photos
Likes: 554
Joined Dec 2011
Location: Houston
     
Apr 07, 2012 22:13 |  #6

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #14227885 (external link)
I've found that the histogram is a more accurate representation and lean towards that.

^ ^ +1!


Gerry
Canon R6 MkII/Canon 5D MkIII/Canon 60D/Canon EF-S 18-200/Canon EF 24-70L USM II/Canon EF 70-200L 2.8 USM II/Canon EF 50 f1.8 II/Σ 8-16/Σ 105ΕΧ DG/ 430 EXII
OS: Linux Ubuntu/PostProcessing: Darktable/Image Processing: GIMP

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
yogestee
"my posts can be a little colourful"
Avatar
13,845 posts
Gallery: 5 photos
Likes: 41
Joined Dec 2007
Location: Australia
     
Apr 09, 2012 04:39 |  #7

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #14227885 (external link)
I've found that the histogram is a more accurate representation and lean towards that.

The times I checked a histogram I can count with the fingers on one hand.

Histograms can also give false readings, especially with low key images.


Jurgen
50D~EOS M50 MkII~EOS M~G11~S95~GoPro Hero4 Silver
http://www.pbase.com/j​urgentreue (external link)
The Title Fairy,, off with her head!!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
oldvultureface
Goldmember
Avatar
4,279 posts
Gallery: 85 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 386
Joined Jun 2008
Location: Northwest Indiana USA
     
Apr 09, 2012 05:39 |  #8

Bonobo wrote in post #14227539 (external link)
Also I have noticed that the exposure meter when it moves left to right sometimes two lines appear then disappear. Not sure why there are two line?

The exposure scale in the viewfinder shows 1/3 stop increments. You have the very first custom function (C.Fn I -1) set to indicate exposure in 1/2 stop increments, hence the two lines when the metering falls between full stops.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MGiddings ­ Photography
Senior Member
Avatar
964 posts
Likes: 10
Joined Mar 2010
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
     
Apr 09, 2012 07:34 |  #9

The exposure meter will lie to you and you have to know what it is trying to do. In spot metering mode point it at a white object. The meter will not see white, it will see grey. It will underexpose by a good stop. Now point it at black. It will overexpose by a stop. So try this point the camera as something white and then set the meter to be a stop over. Now do the same with the black object and underexpose by a stop. A middle grey would be set for the middle. If you know what is happening you can sort it out. Go try it now.


https://mgiddings.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tzalman
Fatal attraction.
Avatar
13,497 posts
Likes: 213
Joined Apr 2005
Location: Gesher Haziv, Israel
     
Apr 09, 2012 08:25 |  #10

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #14227885 (external link)
I've found that the histogram is a more accurate representation and lean towards that.

The histogram is only good for indicating the white and black points, so invaluable for preventing clipping or for setting the white point if you are shooting ETTR, but worthless for judging the accuracy of conventional metering. Shooting a girl in a light blue dress sitting on the grass next to a tree and holding a bouquet of flowers, which part of the histogram represents the skin tones?


Elie / אלי

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
amfoto1
Cream of the Crop
10,331 posts
Likes: 146
Joined Aug 2007
Location: San Jose, California
     
Apr 09, 2012 09:39 |  #11

As a student, you probably have enough reading to do... But I'd still suggest you go yourself a huge favor and buy a copy of"Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Peterson (external link)and reading it. This is a great overview and a quick, easy read that will make it much easier to get good results. Once you've read and understand this book, I bet you could pick up and use practically any camera made with reasonable confidence and a much shortened learning curve.

exposure meters are designed to only read 18% reflectance grey, and nothing else, which is about a mid point grey. It's up to the photographer to read the scene and make adjustments accordingly.

What Jurgen replied is correct... for reflective meters, which is what all cameras have to use for their built-in metering system. Any type of meter that's reading light reflected off of the subject is going to be influenced or "fooled" by any tonalities of the subject that vary much from 18% "average" gray. Doesn't matter if you are settng the camera manually using the meter read-out, of if you have the camera set to an automatic mode... the result is the same.

Be aware that there are other types of meters, though. For example, an incidence meter (external link)instead reads the light falling onto a subject. In this case the tonality of the subject can't influence the meter, so the meter readings are far more accurate and reliable. However, you do have to take the meter reading properly, in the same light that's falling onto the subject.

One nice thing about an incidence meter such as the one I linked to above, it can give an accurate reading of ambient light... plus it can read flash and studio strobe lighting. Many meters can't, but this type meter is designed to be able to measure the very brief "pop" of the flash or strobe.

There are lots of tools available to help determine a good exposure setting. With digital cameras we also often have to set a Custom White balance. For that, a neutral gray target (external link)can be used to take a sample photo and set the white balance.

It just so happens, that same target can be used to check and set up exposure settings usng the camera's built in metering system. If you fill the image area with a neutral gray target for the sample shot, then look at the histogram it will shot a narrow spike of data. If that's centered, the exposure is correct.

You also can use an 18% gray target, such as the one at the link or similar "gray cards", keeping the camera pointed at it to meter off of it while centering the indicator you were using before. That also will give you an accurate exposure.

If you set the camera to render 18% gray correctly, it will faithfully render all other tonalities as well. You still might want to tweak it a little one way or another, such as making the image slightly lighter to increase visible detail in dark areas (possibly at the cost of highlight detail).

There are also spot meters, which are reflective type too, but can be used to pick out and meter one small area within a scene. You need to learn to recognize areas of specific tonalities, then use the meter to read it to get correct settings. We used to use these shooting film, measuring not only the 18% gray, but also the darkest and lightest area of a scene, so that we could adjust the development of the film to better match the dynamic range of the scene. Can't do this with digital, though. (Instead we use mulitple shots and/or post production techniques to adjust dynamic range.)


Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
5DII, 7DII, 7D, M5 & others. 10-22mm, Meike 12/2.8,Tokina 12-24/4, 20/2.8, EF-M 22/2, TS 24/3.5L, 24-70/2.8L, 28/1.8, 28-135 IS (x2), TS 45/2.8, 50/1.4, Sigma 56/1.4, Tamron 60/2.0, 70-200/4L IS, 70-200/2.8 IS, 85/1.8, Tamron 90/2.5, 100/2.8 USM, 100-400L II, 135/2L, 180/3.5L, 300/4L IS, 300/2.8L IS, 500/4L IS, EF 1.4X II, EF 2X II. Flashes, strobes & various access. - FLICKR (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Lowner
"I'm the original idiot"
Avatar
12,924 posts
Likes: 18
Joined Jul 2007
Location: Salisbury, UK.
     
Apr 09, 2012 09:46 |  #12

I've just spent a couple of days with a pro landscape 'tog. He explained how he judges his ND filters for the sky. he measures the grass, then measures the blue of the sky (not the cloud!) and the exposure difference is the ND filter strength needed.

Its another use of that Ansel Adams "where do I put that tone" question that is being discussed here.


Richard

http://rcb4344.zenfoli​o.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Bonobo
THREAD ­ STARTER
Hatchling
3 posts
Joined Apr 2012
     
Apr 09, 2012 18:30 as a reply to  @ Lowner's post |  #13

Thanks everyone for the replies. I have ordered the book "Understanding Exposure" and will read up. I never knew it was so complicated.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
cfcRebel
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,252 posts
Joined Feb 2005
Location: Austin, TX
     
Apr 09, 2012 21:58 |  #14

Bonobo wrote in post #14237798 (external link)
Thanks everyone for the replies. I have ordered the book "Understanding Exposure" and will read up. I never knew it was so complicated.

That needle in the middle of your 7D Exposure meter, depends alot on whether you are using Evaluative, Center-weight, or Spot metering. The book is a good start, but you also need to understand your tool, i.e. your camera.


Fee

Canon | SIGMA | TAMRON | Kenko | Amvona

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
oldvultureface
Goldmember
Avatar
4,279 posts
Gallery: 85 photos
Best ofs: 2
Likes: 386
Joined Jun 2008
Location: Northwest Indiana USA
     
Apr 09, 2012 22:22 |  #15

Bonobo wrote in post #14237798 (external link)
I never knew it was so complicated.

If something in the manual or on the camera doesn't compute, there's usually one or two of us online.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

3,211 views & 0 likes for this thread, 13 members have posted to it.
exposure meter
FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member was a spammer, and banned as such!
2938 guests, 156 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.