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Thread started 09 Apr 2012 (Monday) 18:43
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Low quality Video with 7d

 
Bonobo
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Apr 09, 2012 18:43 |  #1

I have posted about exposure in regards to stills photography but also I am struggling with video as have found that my footage is very noisy a lot of the time. I have now read enough to learn that I should keep the shutter at double the frame rate and also that with the 7D I should try to use iso in multiples of 160.
In my opinion this seems to defeat the purpose of having such a complex and expensive camera as it feels like I am very limited to how I use it.
Supposing I want to shoot something at night with very lowlight what am I to do then? The multiples of 160 only go up to 640 anyway so then what?

I have tried shooting with iso 160, aperture at f4 and shutter at 50 with fps 25 but still the quality is not great. I can see noise and also some sort of flickering lines(on the upper left of shot). I will post a short video for you to see what I mean.

Im at a loss as why the 7D is so hyped as such a great video camera because I'm doing what everyone says but still I can't get good footage?

see sample video here (external link)




  
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KrakenWakes
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Apr 09, 2012 19:35 |  #2

Its not a 5D2 first of all. If you want clean night time ISO 3200 video, then you want a 5D2.

It's also not magic, try it outside with sunlight, or with a faster aperture. For a cinematic look, you want something more like f/1.8.

Your video doesn't look bad to me, it just looks poorly lit.


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themadman
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Apr 09, 2012 19:37 |  #3

I hardly see any noise...


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Apr 09, 2012 20:42 |  #4

There is no magic bullet for getting clean video in a dark setting. When you see TV crews around (and their cameras are 10x as expensive as a DSLR) they always have an extra light no matter what the conditions, because a well lit subject = a sharper picture.


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cfcRebel
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Apr 09, 2012 22:03 |  #5

I don't see any noise in your sample video either. The 7D is no hype because you won't get the kind of video quality for $1500 else where. If you know what you are doing, the 7D will show you the video quality that it is capable of.


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Apr 09, 2012 23:03 |  #6

I see some moire, but nothing bad. Does the quality look good before you upload to YouTube. I upload vids that are filmed with a dslr and the compression from YouTube tends to make the video quality worse. However, SOOC looks really good. Sometimes my computer monitor can give me the impression the video quality is bad but it really isnt.

Your dslr is best used with shallow depth of field with a prime lens. If you film subjects with that in mind, the quality will look much better. Good luck.


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Delija
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Apr 10, 2012 02:38 as a reply to  @ mesakid's post |  #7

What is the OP's objective?
"Movies" or videos are not about image quality (which looks fine to me) - it's about holding an audiences (or viewer's) attention.

There isn't a digital SLR in existence that ANY videographer or cinematographer would CHOOSE to use to capture motion pictures.

Yeah, I know - TV shows have been recorded with the 5D2 and I'm sure that Canon will continue to pay for 'promotional considerations" to have that continue - same with using dSLR cameras to shoot a few random scenes in feature films - it's all about advertising - And using equipment that no sane individual would ever buy to properly equip a dSLR to adapt it's poor form factor to make it usable for video capture.

I've mentioned this more than once before - on Nikon's website there is a 4 or 5 minute "movie" shot using the new D800 camera to show off it's capabilities..... I believe Nikon says what lenses were used, but not how many cameras were used. (or how many of each lens were available assuming multiple cameras were used). But most importantly, the credits clearly show that over 100 skilled filmmakers were involved in the collaborative effort to plan, shoot and edit a 4 or 5 minute movie. Making "films' (or videos) is NOT an endeavor for solo "artists" -

Stating that the design or a still reflex camera is a bad form factor for shooing video is (IMO) a vast understatement.

I worked in the motion picture industry for over 40 years and in daytime or nighttime scenes, indoors or outdoors, rain, sleet, snow or sunshine (none of the weather related issues ever being natural) - there is ALWAYS supplementary lighting used - expecting to shoot in the dark using high ISO is an absurdly amateurish approach. On a par with the complaints I hear about being limited to 30 minutes of continuous shooting. Motion picture cameras used to film theatrical releases (film cameras) hold 300 meter reels of film that run for 11 minutes. It is extremely rare to see a continuous shot that lasts for more than 7 or 8 seconds even in quickly produced TV programs.

Steven Spielberg and every other great natural talent used 8mm film cameras which had a 2 minute film capacity when developing their skills - along with at least some sort of minimal crew - Watch the movie "Super Eight" to get an idea from what is obviously a loosely based autobiographical story about a 12 year old Speilberg..

It's all about editing and planning and collaboration -

In reality it's something that toddler's blowing out birthday candles - or taking their first steps - or any other "home movies" is best done with a dedicated video camera - most of which cost less than any EF lens...and are easier to hold steady, have 40x optical zooms, etc. -

Yes, there is equipment that can be purchased to make a dSLR more suitable for shooting video, but why would anyone spend $50K-$100K to buy a Steadycam for a $1500 camera? Or a $3500 camera? If it's to use EF lenses,Canon offers their EF mount version of their C 300 video camera with a "full" 35mm sensor - And yes, it's a lot more expensive than a 5D or a 1Ds or a 1DX, but it's got a proper form factor - not a design from the 1930s for a still camera.

The obsession with "image quality" is a waste of time...so is attempting to shoot video without proper lighting.

Video is only good if it holds attention - no one cares about "image quality" - they want to be entertained. 16mm films are used in almost all documentaries and in some low budget feature films..grainy and poorly lit movies like the original "Night of the living dead" and the "Blair witch project" made money at the box office and didn't have the "image quality" of today's $150 video cameras..but they had scripts and they had lighting and they had editing done by people trained in their different crafts.

.Having $10million worth of film or video equipment will be completely worthless unless there is a substantial budget and a talented crew and an interesting subject.

Even with my 40 years in the business and with a degree in film I would no more attempt to use any of the 4 cameras I own that can record video (not to mention a half dozen or so cell phones I've owned during this decade) than I would attempt to fly the Space Shuttle - something that I know NOTHING about.

I do know what it takes to produce full length films and 30 second TV commercials - trying to do either as a solo project is far beyond my capabilities and would be a complete waste of time.

There may be a handful of individuals in the world that are capable of creating "art" or "entertainment" with a movie camera or a video camera by themselves - but their talent is as rare as that of a Mozart or a Da Vinci or a Picasso - But certainly they would have to record very simple subjects and still do a lot of editing and add sound. And have the equipment to do it.

I've yet to see anything other than a "how to" videos on You Tube that have served any purpose beyond demonstrating "image quality" while showing a boring static shot of ducks in a pond or a babbling brook or things like that. It's just not an endeavor for an individual. There's a reason that movie credits go on and show that that each feature length film is an effort requiring hundreds - sometimes over a thousand crew members. And those endless credits don't include the people that work for the caterers and countless others who are not credited individually. The teamsters that load and unload the tractor trailers full of equipment on location shoots...the interns that work under the grips and gaffers and so on. The medical people who stand by in case they are needed. Extras in scenes that require them (in some cases hundreds in some cases thousands) - the municipal employees (cops, firemen, etc.) that control crowds in location shots in populated areas - (I could go on for pages).

Who cares how much (in this case - imaginary "noise" there might be in a dull shot of a couch? No matter what - noise or no noise the "image quality' is better than anything possible using small format film with ASA/ISO speeds that didn't come close to the mentioned "640" until very recently - but was never a factor because lighting was always what it still is today - the most important element of good exposure.

I've worked on large sound stages with perhaps a thousand different available lights - I've worked in tiny local TV stations that did nothing at their sources other than local newscasts and even they had dozens of studio lights just to properly light one or two newscasters and a weather reporter. In a nutshell, every scene I've ever lit or seen lit required lights - I've never seen a single scene shot using only available natural light - even if no electrical lights were used, reflectors were used - always something to assure correct exposure and control of light and shadow. Look up the term "chiaroscuro" - a subject that was perhaps the most heavily emphasized of any in my many courses required to get my BA degree in film and TV. There are no shortcuts in lighting - continuity itself requires NOT depending on natural light with no supplementation.

I've said almost every word here in one form or another more than a few times - this is the last time I will waste any effort with trying to communicate the futility of being sold on a feature that is truly useless and only exists due to the innovation of "live view" by Olympus years ago -

Really - there's no reason for anyone to struggle with video using a dSLR when HD camcorders are cheap, easier to use and much more versatile than any dSLR - try pulling focus or zooming smoothly with a dSLR camera - it's just not the right tool for the job. (without very expensive modifications and the knowledge of how to use them) -

I would equate trying to make a "film" as a solo effort as likely as being able to build a suspension bridge as a solo effort. A complete absurdity. I don't know of anyone who is able to write a script, film the action, be the cast and the sound engineer - at the same time be a sole grip, gaffer, focus puller, continuity person, director, editor, cook and bottle washer - driver, dolly operator, art director, set carpenter, storyboard artist, clapper operator - second camera operator, casting director, production assistant, stunt coordinator, special effects creator, etc...etc..etc...

I am also not aware of any EF mount anamorphic lenses -


Wow, what a nice picture! You must have a really great camera!

  
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Sylvester-94
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Apr 10, 2012 07:28 as a reply to  @ Delija's post |  #8

I also see some slight moiré on the top of the cushions but no excessive noise in the shot, although as others have observed the YouTube encoding does not do full justice to direct from camera footage.
The noise in the shot looks more than acceptable to me at the stated settings. Is suspect there may be some high expectations at work here.

If I compare the 7D to other video sources, it really is very impressive. Is it perfect ? hardly, is there room for improvement, most definitely, do you need more elaborate lighting setups to get the most out of any DSLR based Video system, yes absolutely.
However if I compare back to my dedicated DV tape based “Dedicated” video camera the 7D (along with most others of the same generation) just blow it out of the water for resolution, colour reproduction, light sensitivity, flexibility of settings, lens choice etc.

To be honest while no videophile by any stretch of the imagination, I’ve been pretty impressed with the 7D’s capabilities. If I look at the following example, which if I recall correctly was taken between 8-9pm in August in northern Scotland, in conditions which were to the naked eye extremely dark, I’m impressed that the 7D focused, let along captured a relatively well exposed shot.
Yes its noisy but then if memory serves correctly it was at ISO 1600-3200 and the footage from the venerable DV based deadicated camcorder was frankly unusable.

http://youtu.be/cMx9Yp​kX0yk (external link)




  
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WRXTACY
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Apr 10, 2012 08:18 |  #9

Also what lens are you using? If you are using the standard 28-135 or 18-200 it may be another reason for bad quality videos?

To me the video you posted looks pretty good.

But as everyone else stated, you MUST have very good lighting to get the full effect of sharpness.


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learn
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Jul 25, 2012 15:42 as a reply to  @ WRXTACY's post |  #10

@Delija
No pun intended but a light has just gone on in my head!
You pose some interesting points.




  
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Jul 26, 2012 05:43 |  #11

The OP is long gone, and perhaps Delija is too, but for first-time readers of this post, I wouldn't put too much stock in Delija's very negative comments. He apparently comes from a long career in professional film, but knowing absolutely nothing about the OP's intentions, his experience may be totally irrelevant. I know they are irrelevant to me. Yes, a consumer videocam will be easier to use for home movies, but that's not really the point, is it? Some of us have no intention of selling our films for distribution to the neighborhood movieplex or CNN. Some of us just want to have some fun and stretch our creativity. As for the lousy form factor of DSLR for video, yes, there are issues, but I have decades of experience with DSLRs (and film SLRs before them), and I feel much more comfortable with a DSLR in my hands than a videocam. In fact, I've never even owned a videocam and don't intend to start now. I actually enjoy the labors of manual focus, exposure, etc. For a stills person dabbling in DSLR video, it's part of the fun. (OK, I'm a masochist.). And to say that it's impossible to achieve something artful without a battalion of camera operators, makeup artists, scriptwriters, etc. is just bunk. Vimeo is bursting with highly creative and engaging works that were produced by just one person. But I do agree with Delija on one point: it's the vision thing.

So, bottom line: everyone is different and one shouldn't step on someone else's concept of what is right or wrong simply because it doesn't jibe with one's own narrow viewpoint.


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DreamMaker23
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Jul 26, 2012 07:58 |  #12

Bonobo wrote in post #14237885 (external link)
In my opinion this seems to defeat the purpose of having such a complex and expensive camera as it feels like I am very limited to how I use it.
Supposing I want to shoot something at night with very lowlight what am I to do then? The multiples of 160 only go up to 640 anyway so then what?
I have tried shooting with iso 160, aperture at f4 and shutter at 50 with fps 25 but still the quality is not great. I can see noise and also some sort of flickering lines(on the upper left of shot). I will post a short video for you to see what I mean.


For shooting at night time you sometimes need to have a prime lense that can go down to 1.8 at least & some type of light source. And to tell you the truth, don't worry about the ISO. As long as your shutter speed stays at 50 you will be fine.

I have recorded in very dark areas using ISO up to 6400 using a prime lense 50mm 1.8.
And when I converted it to 720P 24 fps on my video-converted at home(Sony Vegas). Let's just say, let you be the judge of it. I mean it's not perfect but it's better then it was. BTW I was shooting it in 1080P 24fps. I also used a dollar store LED minnie flashlight.

http://www.youtube.com …jt-A&index=2&feature=plcp (external link)




  
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Jul 26, 2012 08:17 |  #13

^ Unfortunately the OP hasn't been back on POTN since posting this back in April...


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DreamMaker23
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Jul 26, 2012 08:19 |  #14

TeamSpeed wrote in post #14771951 (external link)
^ Unfortunately the OP hasn't been back on POTN since posting this back in April...

:lol: I just noticed that! Dammmmmm...Or should I say "DOH!!" (Homer Simpson voice)




  
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Jul 26, 2012 08:41 |  #15

Strange how people go through the registration process just to ask a question, then they just leave. I wonder how many actual registered members have less than 100 posts and haven't logged in for over 6 months?


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Low quality Video with 7d
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