Review general Itinerary of NV, AZ, UT trip

Hi Everybody,

My wife has her annual business conference in Vegas this June and I thought I'd tag along as a photo opportunity. She'll be in conference the week of the 11th so I'll be running around solo that week (staying fairly local to vegas) with focus on photography. Then the following week, she and I will be running around together with the main focus on having a good time and photography coming 2nd.

I scrambled last night to create a tentative schedule laid out with general areas to see and was hoping you guys could give me some guidance or opinions on it. The only day that is set in stone is the Grand Canyon on Sunday, the 17th. There was only 1 campsite still available so I jumped on it. I guess we could apply for a backcountry camping permit though.

Anyway, below is a general breakdown:

Monday (11) - Vegas to Page for Antelope Canyon, Stay in Page
Tuesday (12) - Morning and afternoon around Page, Drive and stay in Washington
Wednesday (13)- Snow Canyon and surrounding areas, Stay in Vegas
Thursday (14) - Hoover Dam, Valley of Fire - Stay in Vegas
Friday (15) - Possibly Death Valley - Stay in Vegas
Saturday (16) - Do the Vegas thing

Sunday (17) - Drive to Grand Canyon, Stay in campground/backcountry
Monday (18) - Grand Canyon until late evening and then drive back to Washington.
Tuesday - Thursday (19-21) - Zion
Friday (22) - Bryce - Stay in Vegas
Saturday - Return flight

I was hoping that I would be able to fit in a trip up to Capitol Reef / Escalante but it doesn't seem like time permits it. What are your thoughts on trying to squeeze these areas in?

Am I losing too much time driving to Page on the 11th and back to Washington on the 12th? Would it be better to take a photo day in Zion and combine Lower Antelope in with the Grand Canyon and then lose a non-photo day in Zion?

I've purchased the "Photographing the Southwest" books and will try to narrow my trip down to specific locations after I get some opinions on here.

Thanks!

I'm sure others more knowledgeable than me will offer advice, but I'll throw my two cents in anyway.

Which rim are you going to for the Grand Canyon?

I think it would probably be too much to squeeze in Escalante/Capitol Reef. There are plenty of other things to see and do without adding extra driving and being rushed.

Personally, I would probably combine Page with the Grand Canyon instead of driving out and back the first part of your trip, but I guess it depends on what you and your wife like to do and if you want to lose a day in Zion or not. Zion has some classic hikes like Angel's Landing and the Narrows and Page has some really cool slot canyons, rock formations, and the lake.

The books will be a big help to you!

pudgy_groundhog wrote in post #14250297
I'm sure others more knowledgeable than me will offer advice, but I'll throw my two cents in anyway.

Which rim are you going to for the Grand Canyon?

I think it would probably be too much to squeeze in Escalante/Capitol Reef. There are plenty of other things to see and do without adding extra driving and being rushed.

Personally, I would probably combine Page with the Grand Canyon instead of driving out and back the first part of your trip, but I guess it depends on what you and your wife like to do and if you want to lose a day in Zion or not. Zion has some classic hikes like Angel's Landing and the Narrows and Page has some really cool slot canyons, rock formations, and the lake.

The books will be a big help to you!

Thanks for the response! I'm planning on hitting the North Rim since the South Rim looks to be quite a bit out of the way. After looking at it again, I do feel like I'm losing too much time driving to GC and Page on separate trips. I'm going to end up combining them. I'm going to sit down tomorrow night to reroute the trip accounting for this.

steven1110 wrote in post #14250749
Thanks for the response! I'm planning on hitting the North Rim since the South Rim looks to be quite a bit out of the way. After looking at it again, I do feel like I'm losing too much time driving to GC and Page on separate trips. I'm going to end up combining them. I'm going to sit down tomorrow night to reroute the trip accounting for this.

That was going to be my suggestion, I think that's a more efficient use of your time.

I'm no expert, but made a loop through most of these places last winter and have used the Arizona and Utah "Photographing the SW" books to schedule my trip, and my next one which actually starts next week, for 2 1/2 weeks. Those books are fantastic.

If you're going in June, it'll probably be very hot in most of these locations, and it's remote; I'd definitely factor that into what you do, especially the first week alone. I'd suggest buying a case of water (or two), leaving it in the trunk, and carrying more than you think you need with you every day. Oh, and that time of year, I believe in Zion and Bryce you'll be leaving your car in one spot and taking shuttles around the parks, not like in the off-season where you can drive along all the roads. Kind of a pain, and you need to factor that in to what you're carrying with you since you can't conveniently get back to your car.

Obviously I don't know what your wife wants to see/doesn't want to see, so I'm going to make suggestions just based on schedule and route.

Vegas to Page is quite a drive, probably about 5 hours; might be tough to do if that's your first day in Vegas and you're jet lagged (may not be the case, though, don't know exactly when you're arriving, from where, etc.). Depending on priorities I'd personally try to arrange that with Valley of Fire and Zion, since those seem of interest to you. Perhaps something like:

1 - Valley of fire, and then to Zion; I'd stay in Springdale, although you seem to be targeting Washington; perhaps it's cheaper?
2 - Some more Zion, then on to Bryce, staying in Bryce Canyon City.
3 - Drive to Page, stay in Page.
4 - Down to Grand Canyon

I actually think you might be able to see a bit of Escalante if you don't go back to Vegas until your wife's done (not sure how possible this is if you want to stay married :lol. Then you could split your trip into a northern loop in Utah alone, and then a southern loop with the wife (or vice versa). Something like:

Alone - Vegas, Zion, Bryce, Escalante, + some of your other stops along that route
With wife - Valley of Fire, Page, Grand Canyon, + other stuff.

If you don't mind, here's some things to look up in the books, that are along your route but aren't already on your list. Some are quick stops that can work as breaks in the trip (my apologies if you're already aware of all these):

Cedar Breaks, between Zion and Bryce.
Kodachrome Basin State Park, between Bryce and Escalante
Devils Garden Campground, near Escalante (maybe it's considered inside it?)
Pariah and Buckskin Gulch area, Cottonwood Canyon/Wahweap hoodoos, Paria Rimrock Toadstools, between Zion and Page, off 89
Stud Horse Point and Horseshoe Bend near Page

There's also Coyote Butte's north and south, but it's too late for you to get lottery tickets (4 months in advance), so if you wanted to do that, you'd have to try for the 10 daily walk-in tickets, showing up in Kanab BLM office by 9am, the day before you want to go. Probably not something you want to do given your limited time, but thought I'd throw that out there too. Pics of both are in the books, assuming you have both Utah and AZ.

Oh, one more suggestion, consider getting an 'America the Beautiful' Pass, $80 from the National Park Service. It gets you into all National Parks for one year. You can order it online from the NPS site; I think they also sell them at NP entrances, but they could run out the day you enter. I believe Zion and Bryce are both $25 for a one week pass, so that's $50 right there. And conceivably you may go to Zion twice, in more than 7 days, bumping the coast to $75. If you think you'll visit any other national parks in the next year, that could save you some money.

Cali_PH gave some good advice. A few comments based on our recent trip.

FYI, I wouldn't consider Wahweap hoodoos a quick stop. If you plan on doing this, you'll need to devote half a day. The road to the hoodoos is officially closed. The other access point, hiking up Wahweap Creek, is about 8 miles round trip. The Toadstools are close by and that's an easy, quick stop if you want it to be.

Devils Garden is in Escalante. Definitely a neat spot. Just so the OP is aware, it requires driving on Hole in the Rock Road, which can take a while depending on conditions. When we did it, the road was more or less okay up to Devil's Garden, but after that it was severely washboarded and our top speed was ten mph. Long driving day. :P Stud Horse Point is also on back roads, but they weren't too bad. We took our rental car on them, but I know some people aren't comfortable with that.

When we went to the Wire Pass/Buckskin Gulch trailhead, it was also a little bit longer drive since the road was really rutted. It was fine to travel, just factor in a little longer drive time.

My impression is that it's not too difficult to get a Coyote Buttes South permit (we easily got one online, I don't think there is much competition for the walk in permits). But I agree, with limited time, I would skip it on this trip. It would require renting a 4WD high clearance vehicle and drive time there is lengthy. I wouldn't even bother for the The Wave. In early March we heard there were around 100 people there competing for the ten spots.

In Page, if you like slot canyons, an easy one to do is Water Holes Slot Canyon. That can easily be combined with Antelope Canyon and/or Horsehshoe Bend.

And I would definitely buy the pass. Sounds like you would get your use out of it, plus it's good for a year.

Enjoy!

pudgy_groundhog wrote in post #14258298
FYI, I wouldn't consider Wahweap hoodoos a quick stop. If you plan on doing this, you'll need to devote half a day. The road to the hoodoos is officially closed. The other access point, hiking up Wahweap Creek, is about 8 miles round trip. The Toadstools are close by and that's an easy, quick stop if you want it to be.

Haha, true. Sorry, I meant to start with minor side trips, and kind of ended up adding more... I hadn't known the road is now closed, so thank you, that affects my own trip since we were thinking of seeing that!

That brings up another tip: Those books are slightly out of date, and even if they weren't, road conditions change due to weather and other factors, so it not a bad idea to check in with local BLM offices or visitor centers regarding locations you want to visit to get the latest info.

For Coyote Buttes South, I'd guess it depends on the time of year. Unfortunately, my experience was very different than yours, trying to get passes online for May. My friend and I were both on the website at 9am, when the tickets became available, and the website was hammered, constantly crashing; it took us over an hour just to get signed up for two different days, and when I checked later than day, almost all tickets for all days in May were gone.

I haven't been there but heard it's a nice spot, and also a LOT less crowded than Antelope If it's the one I'm thinking about, it's on Indian land so you'll need a permit. One problem I've read about is that the rules regarding accessing Water Holes itself, even with a permit, seems to change depending on who you ask (even asking the people that give you the permit). Another issue is getting the permit; I had read some people had bought a permit at the Upper Antelope gate, but others tried to and they were told to go to a different location. YMMV

That reminds me, there are a few canyons near Antelope; if you contact Carol Bigthumb's tour group, they have exclusive access to them. I haven't seen these other canyons; I've heard they're not as nice as Antelope, but still nice, and will be MUCH less crowded. I haven't found too many pics online.

If you speak German, or willing to use a translation website like Google Translator, I've found this website to be useful:

http://www.synnatschke​.de/

It's a website for a wife and husband, both of whom are photographers. Under 'Travelogues' there are nice little blog entries with good pics of many Utah/Arizona locations. Most include maps, and sometimes GPS coordinates, tips, directions etc.

You might recognize the name 'Synnatschke' because some of their pics are actually in Laurent's "Photographing the Southwest" books; they talk about contacting him, and how the joined them on at least one photography trip. Laurent's book is fantastic, but has a limited amount of pics. I've used this website to supplement the book and get a better idea of what the locations look like, as well as finding new ones.

They also have a blog and other sites, but I've found this one the most useful. Oh, and they sell an e-book for Valley of Fire. I ended up buying it and think it's well worth it (at least for now...should be visiting next week). Lots of locations, time of day to visit a spot, directions, good pics etc. I hadn't known Valley of Fire had so many nice locations.

You are right - it definitely depends on time of year. We were there first week in March, which is before peak. We had no problems getting the permits online. I'm not sure how many people show up in person that time of year - but we only saw four other people the day we were there. If somebody really wants to go and didn't get an online permit, it's worth it calling the BLM office to see how many people typically show up for the time of year you'll be there.

I haven't been there but heard it's a nice spot, and also a LOT less crowded than Antelope If it's the one I'm thinking about, it's on Indian land so you'll need a permit. One problem I've read about is that the rules regarding accessing Water Holes itself, even with a permit, seems to change depending on who you ask (even asking the people that give you the permit). Another issue is getting the permit; I had read some people had bought a permit at the Upper Antelope gate, but others tried to and they were told to go to a different location. YMMV

It is on Navajo land and requires a permit ($5/person). We got our permit in Cameron on the way to Page, so I don't know about where to get it in Page. I believe up stream the canyon is closed as it is used for commercial tours only (I think it's the Canyon X or Secret Canyon tour or something like that). Water Holes isn't as beautiful as Antelope, but it makes up for that with solitude. We only saw one other couple in there. It's a fun place to visit (and the bonus is that it's short with easy access off of 89, so can easily fit in with other activities).

Cathedral Wash is another one that is accessible. It's off of Cottonwood Canyon Road closer to Kodachrome. We had thought we'd go there, but didn't make it. We were going to drive Cottonwood Canyon Road, but it was closed half way when we were there. And there is Bull Gorge too (I think that's the name), but that one might be a little more difficult (i.e. some down climbing).

I found Marteres books useful and we also use the Michael Kelsey books. They are a little difficult to read, but contain a wealth of information.

Lots of information above to digest and even more reading material to dive into...yikes! I started going through the 2 Southwest books last night and started pinning locations to maps with Laurent's recommended times next to them. Hopefully, I'll be able to very finely narrow it down after I get through it all.

Since my first attempt, I've decided to combine GC and Page so I'm not wasting time on the road, cut out Death Valley altogether since I won't have enough time to really see it, and am rearranging my schedule to visit Snow Canyon, VoF, and a couple other more Vegas local places when I need to be close to Vegas. Right now I'm thinking I'll be in Vegas on Thursday night, Saturday night, and Sunday night of the first week. I know it cuts down on what it allows me to see but I'm okay with that.

Glad you have the books - they should be a big help in planning. I think you have good ideas to keep GC and Page together and cut out Death Valley (added drive time, plus I would think June would be too hot (at least for me, but I'm wimpy when it comes to heat!). I think it's smart to stick closer to Vegas the first week, then hit the other sites the second week. So many neat places to see - no matter what you choose it'll be a great trip!

steven1110 wrote in post #14259350
Lots of information above to digest and even more reading material to dive into...yikes! I started going through the 2 Southwest books last night and started pinning locations to maps with Laurent's recommended times next to them. Hopefully, I'll be able to very finely narrow it down after I get through it all.

Since my first attempt, I've decided to combine GC and Page so I'm not wasting time on the road, cut out Death Valley altogether since I won't have enough time to really see it, and am rearranging my schedule to visit Snow Canyon, VoF, and a couple other more Vegas local places when I need to be close to Vegas. Right now I'm thinking I'll be in Vegas on Thursday night, Saturday night, and Sunday night of the first week. I know it cuts down on what it allows me to see but I'm okay with that.

Haha, sorry for adding on to the research material! Especially since that website is kind of a pain, since I had to use a translator. At the very least you can see their pics of locations if you see something in the books and want to see more to determine if it's worth adding on.

And there's so much to see there in Utah/Arizona, there's no way you could see it all in that amount of time, so it's not a bad idea to cut down the itinerary, perhaps spend more time at fewer spots instead of rushing through more of them. I think I added too much on my first trip (1 week), and while it was nice seeing more locations, I wish I had spent more time at most of them.

I agree with pudgy_groundhog, sounds like a good idea to take out Death Valley. Not only for the heat, but distance/travel issues. I've never been there myself, but I think many of the 'prime' photo locations are far apart and roads aren't great (when there ARE roads). Best save that trip for when you have more time.

Speaking of heat, June should be a bit toasty in much of Utah and AZ (for me, I'm a wimp with heat too). I've been keeping an eye on the weather lately, and I'm surprised Zion and Page have recently reached the mid 80's! Almanac info I found online said this time of year should average low-mid 70's for most of my locations.

FYI, I just got off the phone, making reservations for Upper Antelope Canyon with Carol Bigthumb's company (used them last time, had a fantastic experience with my guide, noticed he did more to help us set up shots than other guides just rushing people through; I also see the Bigthumb's group recommended by other photogs in various forums). Anyway, thought you'd be interested to know a couple of things:

First, I was told all the tour groups are raising their prices soon; she said May 28th, although maybe that was just her company, not necessarily all of them. The photography tour is going from $46 to $86! She did say I didn't have to worry because I was booking before May 28.

Second, as you might expect, reservations for prime times (10am for the 2 hour tours now; could shift a bit in June),

So I would try to pick a tour group and make a reservation when you nail down your dates. If you reserve before May 28, you MIGHT get the much cheaper price, but I can't guarantee it.

A couple of other things I'm reminded of. If you take their receipt down to Lower Antelope you get a $6 discount. I'd swear they told me the opposite last time (bring the Lower receipt to Upper for a discount), but I wasn't able to take advantage so my memory could be wrong. If you plan on doing both, ask about the discount if you make reservations with them. Other tour companies might have similar offers.

Also, you may want to consider talking to Carol's Son, Lionel Bigthumb. He offers after hours tours to nearby locations; I haven't talked to him about it yet to see what locations and costs; I just keep forgetting, getting busy for my trip.

Cali_PH wrote in post #14272435
FYI, I just got off the phone, making

First, I was told all the tour groups are raising their prices soon; she said May 28th, although maybe that was just her company, not necessarily all of them. The photography tour is going from $46 to $86! She did say I didn't have to worry because I was booking before May 28.

Sheesh. All the more reason to avoid the whole Jackalope zoo...

Wow, that is pricey. I know Antelope Canyon is beautiful and the top destination in Page, but for the cost and crowds, I think nearby Water Holes Slot Canyon is a very worthwhile alternative. Buckskin Gulch too.

Geonerd wrote in post #14274934
Sheesh. All the more reason to avoid the whole Jackalope zoo...

pudgy_groundhog wrote in post #14274962
Wow, that is pricey. I know Antelope Canyon is beautiful and the top destination in Page, but for the cost and crowds, I think nearby Water Holes Slot Canyon is a very worthwhile alternative. Buckskin Gulch too.

Yeah, I had to ask her to repeat it because I thought there was a mistake. I'd probably avoid it myself and stick to Lower and other places since I was frustrated with how crowded it was in the off-season; I'm dreading how much of a zoo it'll be this time. But I've got a couple of friends along who've never been, so I'm playing tour guide.

Okay, so I've taken another shot at my 2 week schedule and it's looking something like this:

Sunday (10th) - In Vegas
Monday (11th) - Snow Canyon in Morning/Early afternoon, to Cedar Breaks in late afternoon and night. Camp in Dixie
Tuesday (12th) - Bryce Canyon, Camp in Bryce or Dixie
Wednesday (13th) - Zion, Camp nearby or stay in Washington. Whichever I can pull off this late.
Thursday (14th) - Zion, Head back to Vegas
Friday (15th) - Valley of Fire, Hoover, Red Rocks
Saturday (16th) -Vegas with Wife and friends
Sunday (17th) - Drive to Grand Canyon, Camp
Monday (18th) - Grand Canyon, Either Camp in Kaibob or Head to Page
Tuesday (19th) - Horseshoe, Antelope, Maybe something else quick in the area, Take Cottonwood Pass in afternoon. Camp in Kodachrome or Bryce
Wednesday (20th) - Bryce, head down to Zion late evening/night
Thursday (21st) - Zion, Stay in Washington
Friday (22nd) - Kanarraville Canyon, Back to Vegas

The Route looks something like this http://g.co/maps/zggd6

There are still a couple things that might be altered but I think I'm getting close to my final schedule with this routing. I know I'm doubling back on some areas like Bryce and Zion but I really would like my wife to experience these areas as well.