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Thread started 13 Apr 2012 (Friday) 21:31
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Sage
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Apr 15, 2012 12:51 |  #46

DetlevCM wrote in post #14269739 (external link)
I never had a Nokia phone :D - and won't ever use an apple device :) - neither dead not alive. But anyway.

Back on topic: What you refer to as "Chatter" sounds like in-house instant messaging. That's fine, and useful. But it brings its own infrastructure with it, which is the key difference. It is a closed environment - i.e. the sales team of that company in your environment. And yes, something like instant messaging can be good for this. Considering how often we get "lost keys", "food left over" e-mails at university. Having said that though, I do not have a spam problem. I'm not sure what that is.
But that is completely different to a global centralized agglomeration of user data.

To mention a different project, Google Wave: If hosted by google, at best a bit of fun. But if you deployed that in a company on their own server, that would be extremely useful. (Sadly google killed it.)

However, this results in the same situation that we have with e-mail - different providers who do not talk with each other. And that is important.
I don't see a problem with an "in-house" network in a company, or even at a university level. But the very moment this is public and a celebration of exhibitionism it will become a problem if it isn't one already.

And with respect to older people using it: I don't know any is the honest answer. Though I have heard they exist.

Since all is based in the cloud, opening up from 'inside an organisation to the outside' is only a very small step. Security of course is one of the most important factors.

My point was, FB is testing the waters for some new ways people are communicating, this is very much happening today and people and organisations are adopting this.

Well, as for older people, I've personally seen a recent rush of 55-60+ years uncles and aunts popping up ... they are all adopting ;-)a

What phone do you have? ;-)a


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Apr 15, 2012 12:54 |  #47

bipodsnapster wrote in post #14269768 (external link)
Since all is based in the cloud, opening up from 'inside an organisation to the outside' is only a very small step. Security of course is one of the most important factors.

My point was, FB is testing the waters for some new ways people are communicating, this is very much happening today and people and organisations are adopting this.

Well, as for older people, I've personally seen a recent rush of 55-60+ years uncles and aunts popping up ... they are all adopting ;-)a

Well, you could actually host your own server ;).
That's one of the other funny things... companies saving money but handing their internal secrets to cloud storage suppliers... - maybe in the short term...
(If you let go of data you no longer control it.)


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Apr 15, 2012 13:12 |  #48

DetlevCM wrote in post #14269787 (external link)
Well, you could actually host your own server ;).
That's one of the other funny things... companies saving money but handing their internal secrets to cloud storage suppliers... - maybe in the short term...
(If you let go of data you no longer control it.)

There are many different methods of cloud computing and the kind of control you keep ... private cloud, public cloud, SaaS, PaaS, IaaS etc. but that would now go too much off-topic.

I work in the Middle East, and the paranoia about handing out data to a Service Provider outside or 'up in the cloud' is quite high, but also here there is a
steady shift and corporations are moving towards this. It's a journey which has started and again, corporations are adopting.

And when you think about it, a crazy amount of confidential information is already shared on a daily based between people working for companies by 'just doing there job',
completely unencrypted and yep ... via Email, going all crazy routes throughout the Internet. So how safe is that current model today really?

Things are just changing and back to FB ... I clearly can see that from a technology (or methodology) point of view, we are on about something which will get leveraged further going forward.


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Apr 15, 2012 13:14 |  #49

fotoworx wrote in post #14267006 (external link)
I've noticed this as well. You're at a dinner party and people are sitting at the table with their faces buried into a smart phone.

This drive me freakin' nuts. In my house I have banned cell phone usage in our family times.


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Apr 15, 2012 13:21 |  #50

Jaymz wrote in post #14269875 (external link)
This drive me freakin' nuts. In my house I have banned cell phone usage in our family times.

When taking photographs, you heard people saying One, Two, Three .... Cheeeese

I've been to a christmas bash last year and overheard the following:

One, Two, Three ... Facebooook. I kid you not, true story.

Maybe it's because every 3rd picture taken today ends up on it, who knows ;-)a


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Apr 15, 2012 13:37 |  #51

DetlevCM wrote in post #14269787 (external link)
Well, you could actually host your own server ;).
That's one of the other funny things... companies saving money but handing their internal secrets to cloud storage suppliers... - maybe in the short term...
(If you let go of data you no longer control it.)

Just quickly one more thing on this, in case you haven't seen this, it might be interesting.
In example, Amazon, as most only connect it to buying Books, CD's etc. online, has a large market share in selling their infrastructure as a cloud services. (Just google Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (Amazon EC2).

http://www.businessclo​udnews.com …-may-find-surprising.html (external link)

Once you get your head around all of this and you see where this is heading, maybe you see also new communication technology like FB and the possibilities, in a different light.


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Apr 15, 2012 13:44 |  #52

bipodsnapster wrote in post #14269964 (external link)
Just quickly one more thing on this, in case you haven't seen this, it might be interesting.
In example, Amazon, as most only connect it to buying Books, CD's etc. online, has a large market share in selling their infrastructure as a cloud services. (Just google Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (Amazon EC2).

http://www.businessclo​udnews.com …-may-find-surprising.html (external link)

Once you get your head around all of this and you see where this is heading, maybe you see also new communication technology like FB and the possibilities, in a different light.

I know Microsoft offers at least storage and I think also computing capabilites. I think Mendeley uses Amazon.
The thing is, right now it is cheap - when everybody has outsourced their IT, the cost will climb.

And no, it won't make me see facebook in any better light. Actually, it makes life for the cirminals a lot easier. Take out Amazon's server farm and a few hundred companies can't get their files or have their files stolen... brilliant...
Or prices rise and companies not willing to pay the new price will scramble to build up their own IT again.

No, I don't expect ANY good to come from that.


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Apr 15, 2012 13:54 |  #53

DetlevCM wrote in post #14270008 (external link)
I know Microsoft offers at least storage and I think also computing capabilites. I think Mendeley uses Amazon.
The thing is, right now it is cheap - when everybody has outsourced their IT, the cost will climb.

And no, it won't make me see facebook in any better light. Actually, it makes life for the cirminals a lot easier. Take out Amazon's server farm and a few hundred companies can't get their files or have their files stolen... brilliant...
Or prices rise and companies not willing to pay the new price will scramble to build up their own IT again.

No, I don't expect ANY good to come from that.

I agree with you on the complexity and security issues around it.
But I also see this as an industry and world wide trend which you as individual (not you now personally) can't stop by ignoring it. This is minority.

Actually, back to my comparison of SFDC & Chatter, which you said is more like an internal 'only' messaging system.

Now, SFDC is a cloud service, this Chatter system which looks so much like FB, is also a cloud service (but segmented by security for internal corporate use only, the service you buy).

Why can't FB not extend their services and also offer their system for corporate use. There is nothing people can't share with a FB account as what they are doing by email (which is not real time and limited).

I can see people in offices around the Globe connected and communicating like this, you don't? ;-)a


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Apr 15, 2012 14:02 |  #54

bipodsnapster wrote in post #14270067 (external link)
I agree with you on the complexity and security issues around it.
But I also see this as an industry and world wide trend which you as individual (not you now personally) can't stop by ignoring it. This is minority.

Actually, back to my comparison of SFDC & Chatter, which you said is more like an internal 'only' messaging system.

Now, SFDC is a cloud service, this Chatter system which looks so much like FB, is also a cloud service (but segmented by security for internal corporate use only, the service you buy).

Why can't FB not extend their services and also offer their system for corporate use. There is nothing people can't share with a FB account as what they are doing by email (which is not real time and limited).

I can see people in offices around the Globe connected and communicating like this, you don't? ;-)a

Yepp, I can't.
Competing interests, the risk of industrial espionage (for industries) and the severe risk of adverse effects for individuals are too much to make it work in the long run. Small decentralized solutions - yes, maybe. One big and central? No, even less being a US run company. Having said that, no country is truly neutral - not even Switzerland.


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Apr 15, 2012 14:13 |  #55

DetlevCM wrote in post #14270125 (external link)
Yepp, I can't.
Competing interests, the risk of industrial espionage (for industries) and the severe risk of adverse effects for individuals are too much to make it work in the long run. Small decentralized solutions - yes, maybe. One big and central? No, even less being a US run company. Having said that, no country is truly neutral - not even Switzerland.

Today very large US Multinationals are using SFDC, with core data of their business, leads, opportunities, deals etc. billions of $

Well, we have to see where this is all heading and how far it goes.
Would be great to review the archive of this thread in 15 years ...

With you reading it on an Apple tablet ;-)a


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Apr 15, 2012 14:33 |  #56

bipodsnapster wrote in post #14270171 (external link)
Today very large US Multinationals are using SFDC, with core data of their business, leads, opportunities, deals etc. billions of $

Well, we have to see where this is all heading and how far it goes.
Would be great to review the archive of this thread in 15 years ...

With you reading it on an Apple tablet ;-)a

Well, US companies keeping thins on US clouds servers - maybe.

But Europe does not like to keep things in the US ;).
And no, I won't ever use apple. I have a PlayBook - because they were cheap. The best use for a tablet is as a toy (for playing games).
In terms of practical uses any useful computer must have a keyboard. Touchscreens are 100% useless for typing. (My Bold is better for typing on it).
And I won't spend 130 Pounds or whatever it is on a keyboard. But hey, a toy for 240 Pounds isn't too bad :D.

But that's all tablets will ever be. Reading, a so-so affair. But only if you have the pages bookmarked. On the other hand, might was well use my Bold for that, works just as well.


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Apr 16, 2012 14:35 |  #57

Im not a fan of facebook myself, it was handy to keep in touch but i found myself on it constantly that i needed to delete my account and stay off it, now ill never go back on to it, shame as most things these days revolve around facebook, my friends all sit on their phones on it and it drives me nuts.




  
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Apr 17, 2012 03:06 |  #58

DetlevCM wrote in post #14269330 (external link)
Sites like Facebook make the most sense if you actively follow them. -> That's the whole point. If you want asynchronous communication there is e-mail, text messages, etc.
And the odds of the majority of facebook users not being very "clever" is pretty high. Who in their right minds hands their personal data to a company that exists to make money out of that data?

The more I read what you write, the more I know you don't have a clue. Facebook provides interaction that email and chat cannot. It allows not only you but others you would never have met to share interests and possibly meet people you would have never seen before. Email, chat and text message will never provide this.

Let me give you an example. I'm living in a foreign country and don't speak the language very well, but I share a common interest with Thai photographers. I have met more photographers on Facebook than I could have ever met in my life any other way. This has transmitted into real world friends and people that now join together on weekends to shoot. Even if we all just joined together on weekends and allowed stragglers to join at the shoot, we would never come close to what FB provides.

As to your snide comments about facebook users not being clever speaks volumes about your myopic viewpoint, bitter outlook, and also makes you a hypocrite. For starters, Google does the exact same thing. I take it you have never used Google before or ANY other search engine? Google has and always will sell your data. Your personal data is something that you control on FB. I guarantee you can only see what I want you to see. If I have your name from simply driving by your house, I can tell many more things (voting records, taxes, property ownership, criminal record, employment, etc...) about you from public records than anyone could gather from a social medial site unless you put it out there.

The overall majority of Facebook users are intelligent enough to manipulate and post parts of their lives, which is normal for anyone that lives in the digital age. They are also smart enough to limit who can see what and secure FB for those that don't want to access their data. You should probably get a grasp of reality before making derogatory remarks that make you look like an idiot.

I also find it funny and hypocritical for someone that praises a crap site like LinkedIn and bemoans about personal data being used. I would never put where I worked and who I worked with on any site. There is not one person in the history of LinkedIn that has ever gotten a job from that site. It provides nothing.

As for employers asking for passwords and searching FB profiles, those stories originated from the US. Here in Asia no one really cares what you post on FB.

My girlfriend teaches Master degree students and uses it as a tool in addition to email, phone conversations, personal meetings, and class time. She also has a PhD. Kind of doesn't fit your derogatory sweeping generalization now does it?

I have lost track of how many businesses I have visited as a result of FB. I'm not talking the cheap ads on the side, but business pages. For example, I knew when the very first 5D MKIII's arrived in Thailand because of a vendor that posted it on their FB page. I was on the BTS going across town to see that vendor to purchase it when another (my favorite) called me to let me know they had it as well. I guarantee the vendor that posted in on FB reached FAR more people in a shorter time via FB than the other vendor did by calling customers one by one.

Your comments about most facebook users being college rejects and stupid really just shows how bitter and out of touch you are with reality. You should probably just go outside and scream at all the kids to stay off your lawn.


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Apr 17, 2012 10:37 |  #59

Gregg.Siam wrote in post #14279378 (external link)
The more I read what you write, the more I know you don't have a clue. Facebook provides interaction that email and chat cannot. It allows not only you but others you would never have met to share interests and possibly meet people you would have never seen before. Email, chat and text message will never provide this.

Let me give you an example. I'm living in a foreign country and don't speak the language very well, but I share a common interest with Thai photographers. I have met more photographers on Facebook than I could have ever met in my life any other way. This has transmitted into real world friends and people that now join together on weekends to shoot. Even if we all just joined together on weekends and allowed stragglers to join at the shoot, we would never come close to what FB provides.

As to your snide comments about facebook users not being clever speaks volumes about your myopic viewpoint, bitter outlook, and also makes you a hypocrite. For starters, Google does the exact same thing. I take it you have never used Google before or ANY other search engine? Google has and always will sell your data. Your personal data is something that you control on FB. I guarantee you can only see what I want you to see. If I have your name from simply driving by your house, I can tell many more things (voting records, taxes, property ownership, criminal record, employment, etc...) about you from public records than anyone could gather from a social medial site unless you put it out there.

The overall majority of Facebook users are intelligent enough to manipulate and post parts of their lives, which is normal for anyone that lives in the digital age. They are also smart enough to limit who can see what and secure FB for those that don't want to access their data. You should probably get a grasp of reality before making derogatory remarks that make you look like an idiot.

I also find it funny and hypocritical for someone that praises a crap site like LinkedIn and bemoans about personal data being used. I would never put where I worked and who I worked with on any site. There is not one person in the history of LinkedIn that has ever gotten a job from that site. It provides nothing.

As for employers asking for passwords and searching FB profiles, those stories originated from the US. Here in Asia no one really cares what you post on FB.

My girlfriend teaches Master degree students and uses it as a tool in addition to email, phone conversations, personal meetings, and class time. She also has a PhD. Kind of doesn't fit your derogatory sweeping generalization now does it?

I have lost track of how many businesses I have visited as a result of FB. I'm not talking the cheap ads on the side, but business pages. For example, I knew when the very first 5D MKIII's arrived in Thailand because of a vendor that posted it on their FB page. I was on the BTS going across town to see that vendor to purchase it when another (my favorite) called me to let me know they had it as well. I guarantee the vendor that posted in on FB reached FAR more people in a shorter time via FB than the other vendor did by calling customers one by one.

Your comments about most facebook users being college rejects and stupid really just shows how bitter and out of touch you are with reality. You should probably just go outside and scream at all the kids to stay off your lawn.

I was asked to sign up for a Facebook account at the start of university - and never found a use for it - eventually deleting the account.
People from my school year adding me and I don't know if I ever talked to them... - people posting random games or their drunk images from parties, plus a generally very vulgar use of language, but what does one expect of today's youth anyway?

Neither of this occurs with IM or E-Mail. But back to your reply.

Why would anybody look for people to meet online? Why not go and find a photography club? Find a forum?
Add to that, why should I have ANY interest in talking to a random person that is not introduced to me by a common acquaintance or who I meet directly otherwise (job interview, shopping at the same shop for years, etc.).
The argument that you need to hand all your personal details to a US company for potentially finding a few people with similar interests seems to me rather - ehm, idiotic.

And yes, facebook users generally communicate in vulgar ways using incorrect grammar and punctuation, that is even if they can be bothered to construct sentences in the first place.
There is a saying in mathematics - exceptions prove the rule. Maybe you find 1% who don't. But then again, you don't hand over your personal details to a US company to find the 1% of users who can communicate decently and coherently of which some potentially share an interest with you.
Now you are indeed right about google selling your information and you are indeed right about the fact that there is nothing you can do about it. However you are completely wrong (!!) if you think you have any control about what facebook does with your data. Facebook sells what they want to sell and collects what they want to collect - and happily breach EU law (by not providing access to all data they collect which they must if you ask to see it).
And I also think you are very wrong stating that you can gain a lot of information from just my name: Maybe in the US you can, but that country has virtually no privacy laws. In the EU that is a bit different. Be my guest to try if you have time.

And in terms of users controlling what people see: People could, but most people won't.
What some people might be good at is presenting an image of how they want to be seen. But again, they will be a minority.

LinkedIn - again, how can you know if you don't use it :). At least it isn't a collection of drunk adolescents. Yes, maybe its advantage is overstated, maybe it isn't. If anything though, it offers a more professional environment. In terms of employment history, you don't have to put it on there, but for academics this is generally public anyway.
LinkedIn is a completely different environment. It also isn't a place where people don't waste your time with status updates no-one wants to see.
Having said that, I don't make any active use of it.

And about people using Facebook: I see people wasting their time on it here at university rather than thinking about their PhD, some more some less. In any way, it requires a browser that is constantly open, something neither E-Mails not forums require. You check on them when you have the time. (Or let Outlook do that for you - I only get my university emails at University and My private emails on my phone, the rest can wait.)

Lastly, thankfully there is no situation where I end up with children on "my" lawn.


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Apr 17, 2012 20:02 |  #60

I had the Commodore64, and read in Compute's gazette about connecting by using your phone to C64 BBS. Lots of people did it even in 1985, but not me. My teacher showed me this internet thingy back in 1989 where you could read articles and papers and do research... ahem, boring stuff as there were no pictures. By 1991 I played around with this internet thingy, but got bored, left, and did not return until 1994.

As for facebook. I was on it, yes, you could find people, friends, etc. why, I dont know. If I havent seen someone 5-10+ years, then there is a reason for it so lets keep it that way. I dont like to be hit up for jobs or money. I dont care for the world to see my profile, what I Liked, or disliked, or hate, etc. So, I closed my account.




  
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