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Thread started 14 Apr 2012 (Saturday) 16:33
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new 5D mark ii underexposure ( live view and viewfinder metering difference )

 
Lowner
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Jun 17, 2012 08:00 |  #16

ejenner wrote in post #14590526 (external link)
Metering on the 5DII is not good which is why (IMO) so many 5DII users proclaim using manual. Unlike my T1i which usually needed a -ve EC, my 5DII almost always needs a +ve EC.

Even worse is that it is not as consistent as my T1i.

Personally I think this is the worst aspect of the 5DII, more so than the AF.

On the other hand, if it is underexposing a lot (more than 1 stop) with the same ISO, shutter speed and aperture, it would seem something is wrong. I did however find that mine underexposes by 2/3 stop compared with my T1i at the exact same settings.

As a relatively new user of the 5D2, I have also noticed differences between it and my previous 30D. So this is a known issue?

I can get around it easily enough but why have Canon not offered a solution long ago if its a problem with the model.


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TTHX
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Jun 17, 2012 10:07 |  #17

I've noticed a difference as well compared to my 60D. I usually just expose +1 on the 5Dmkii and it's fine. I've also noticed that images look dark and underexposed as hell on the lcd, but look great on a monitor aha.


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amfoto1
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Jun 17, 2012 11:24 |  #18

The above examples appear to be done under some sort of fluorescent lighting, which is known to be a problem for accurate exposures, often causes metering problems. I'd also expect a scene with so much white in it to tend to cause the camera to want to underexpose a lot. So, no surprises there. I think any camera would do something similar, and if those are fluorescent bulbs, that just adds another wild card (FL bulbs "flicker" at a rate of around 60hz, which we don't see with our eyes, but can mess with both the metering and AF system in a camera... FL bulb flickering also can trigger an epileptic seizure in people with that affliction).

The best way to handle FL lighting is to take extra shots, perhaps bracketing exposures.... and check your results before leaving the scene (histogram).

20D, 30D, 40D, 50D and 5D II all use essentially the same 35 zone metering system (I don't know which of the Rebel/xxxD models use it too, but imagine many do). I've seen little difference between the various of these I've used, except for some nuances. For example, 5D/5DII have a much smaller spot than the others (approx. 2.4% of image area, compared to 3.5% on most of the other models).

5DIII, 7D, 60D, T2i/550D, T3i/600D use a different, 63 zone "iFCL" metering system that's improved a little, but also has some nuances of it's own. All 1D use a different metering system, too. Haven't used them enough to comment.

Canon shooters who are using any of the auto exposure modes (Av, Tv, P) often make a practice of setting "ETTR" or "expose to the right". This means simply dialing in +1/3, or sometimes +2/3 Exposure Compensation all the time. It's actually a rather common practice with all Canon and is sort of a bandaid procedure, erring on the side of overexposure rather than underexposure which will cause more noise in images, rather than taking the time to arrive at a really accurate exposure. More about ETTR on this website (external link)(follow links within this article, too).

What metering mode are you using? Unless you are really good at setting exposure by eye, judging exposure compensation if using an AE mode with some EC, Spot Metering and Partial Metering can be difficult to use well. I think they work best with a gray target such as this one (external link) (which can be used to set custom white balance at the same time). Some people like and use Center Weighted, which is often good for scenic shots. But Evaluative puts some extra emphasis on the active AF point, so might better compensate for backlighting or extremes that would fool Center Weighted.

Frankly, the way I use my 5DII, usually with stationary subjects and in M or manual mode, I either use a separate, handheld incidence meter such as this one (external link) or set the exposure by eye.

An incidence meter measures the light falling onto the subject, rather than what's being reflected off of it. This makes for much more accurate metering. The reading isn't effected by the subject tonality, with incidence metering. With a meter of this type I still might do a little mental "exposure compensation"... slightly overexposing a dark subject to bring out shadow detail or holding back exposure with a light colored subject, to retain detail in highlights. But it's usually in 1/10 stop increments, not in grosser 1/3 or 2/3 or more stop jumps on the scale of the camera, and metering is far more precise.

You can see the difference easily. Take your camera outside in midday, perhaps in a parking lot full of cars of different colors and tonalities (though just about any but the most bland and boring scene will do). Be sure AE Lock is not on and half press the shutter release button while panning across the scene. Watch the meter reading in the viewfinder. It fluctuates wildly, responding to all the different tonalities. Yet, in truth the lighting is even and exposure should be consistent. This is the Achille's Heel of reflective metering. Using an incidence meter properly, you get the same reading time after time after time. But there is no way to effectively build an incidence meter into a camera, so we're stuck with reflective metering.

Setting by eye really isn't a problem, in many common situations. Use the Sunny 16 rule or Cloudy or Shady 11 or Cloudy and Shady 8... or whatever. Take a shot. Check the Histogram. Make some adjustments and take another shot. You can dial it in pretty quickly.

Usually with my 5DII I'm shooting stationary subjects, so M and the above methods of determining exposure are no problem. However, with moving subjects, that are going in and out of sun and shadow or otherwise variable lighting situations, it's different. I'm forced to use one of the auto exposure modes (Av, Tv, P) and rely upon the camera's internal, reflective meter.

For moving subjects, I usually use my 7Ds instead, often set to an AE mode and Evaluative Metering that works pretty well... But I also tend to set those cameras with +1/3 or +2/3 Exposure Compensation as a precaution. More in strongly backlit situations. And it might need to be tweaked + or - a third stop depending upon subject tonality (for example, a white horse would need more + EC, while a black horse will need less, assuming both in the same light... a gray horse or a roan/light chestnut or an apaloosa might need only the "standard" amount of EC).


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macroimage
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Jun 17, 2012 18:10 |  #19

razorarjan wrote in post #14265940 (external link)
if i take EC 0 in the ViewFinder I get a lil bit underexposed picture...I find the metering in the Live View to be accurate enough...but why the metering is behaving totally different in Live View and Viewfinder mode....any ideas and any tips to fix it?...


Perhaps check that the custom function for the focusing screen selection is correct for your focus screen. A mismatch here will have an error of about this amount but won't affect live view, only the viewfinder metering.


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Jun 19, 2012 09:39 as a reply to  @ macroimage's post |  #20

jakovmarkovic gave the right answer in the beginning.

On live view shooting only evaluative metering is available.

p.112 of in manual: "The metering mode is fixed to evaluative metering for Live View shooting."

So if you have other metering set while shooting using the viewfinder the exposure will be different.




  
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Lowner
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Jun 19, 2012 11:02 |  #21

We spent today at a local Hawk Conservancy. A good 20 shots of mine were either virtually white or getting very close to it. I've dumped them so have none to show anyone, but it's a problem I never experienced with my old 30D, only the 5D2.


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Jun 19, 2012 22:32 |  #22

LiveView meters via the main sensor, whereas normal metering sensor meters off the light passing thru the focus screen. The focus screen is not involved during LiveView metering. Thus the normal evaluative metering (or Average or Partial or Spot area) will not be active. If the metered areas are not identical, it is not at all unexpected that the subject matter causes different metering results. Canon does state that during Live View the Evaluative metering is used. There isn't much detailed information available from Canon Inc. that compares the Evaluative metering algorithm of the 40D in Live View mode to the camera's standard Evaluative metering mode. Chuck Westfall of Canon USA has written, about the 40D LIve View metering:

"Standard Evaluative metering reads nothing beyond the 35-zone coverage area, meaning that approximately 10-15% of the frame near the periphery is never considered; Live View Evaluative metering reads the entire frame.
"Standard Evaluative metering centers its reading on the metering zone surrounding the active focusing point, which must be one of the 9 points used by the phase-detection AF system; Live View Evaluative metering centers its reading on the portion of the scene contained inside the focusing frame that's shown on the LCD screen. This focusing frame can be moved freely anywhere within the picture area."

There is no more information about Live View metering in the context of the 5DII.

If your camera were aimed at a uniform tonality and illuminated surface, all of the modes -- including Live View metering -- should all match .


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new 5D mark ii underexposure ( live view and viewfinder metering difference )
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