5D vs 20D Comments please

Hi guys

I have a 20D and thinking seriously about trading up to a 5D.

The 12 MPix FF sensosor at fist seemed a good idea - and Canons advertising blurb made it look tempting - but when I had time to think I had the following thoughts -

1) Will I miss the effective focal lengths of my existing lenses when used with the 20D? A friend has told me he drastically noticed the reduction in zoom when he went from the 1.6 factor to a 1.3 factor.

2) Will the increased pixel count make up for the decreased focal lengths when cropping part of an image?

3) Perhaps most importantly - does the extra money required justify the purchase of the 5D over the 20D?

Any other comments on the 5D to help me get my mind in order will be gratefully received.

Regards

Ask yourself whether you prefer to work at the telephoto or wide angle end of the spectrum? If you like wide-angle, then the 5D will give you much more than the 20D can (Sigma's 12-24 zoom, or the various 14 mm primes are far wider, FF, than anything available for the APS-C of the 20D). If you need that telephoto reach, the pixel density ofthe 5D isn't as great as the pixel density of the 20D, so cropping the 5D picture to 1.6x won't give you the resolution you get OOB from the 20D.

I fully intend to get a 5D as soon as I've covered a couple of more pressing needs on the EOS front, but it'll be to supplement, not supplant, the 20D. I'll continue to use the 20D with my longer lenses, put my wider lenses on the 5D, and get the D60 converted for IR. But I won't replace the 20D. Not until Canon comes out with a higher density sensor in FF. Maybe a later generation 1D series will succeed in doing that. But I think a 5D and 20D will keep me body-happy for several more years.

I'd agree, the 5D most often will be backed by a crop camera for tele shots.
If you only want one camera, and see yourself often using a lens at it's max focal len and then cropping , FF at 12MP may not be the best solution.

The d200 at 10MP or a new 20D if it hits 10MP will add to the crop case.

Many consider 300dpi as the upper limit a printer can resolve, so even with more pixel density, prints may not show any difference unless you are printing over 9" wide or so...

I have both the 5D and the 20D---I keep the 20D around for waterbird shots where I can use the crop. If I had to keep just one though, it would be the 5D. I can live with not having the crop factor, but I have found FF to be invaluable. It allows me to use some truly excellent lenses (the 50 1.4, the 70-200 f2.8 for example) to their full advantage at their original focal length, where they are most versatile.

For 5D, you need really good lenses, or otherwise, your image will suffer from corner softness. If your lens collection are largely Ls, go for 5D for better wide end performance and DoF control. The cost of 5D is not much when compared with several Ls.

Don't forget you can crop a shot from the 5D and end up with a shot with about the same resolution and detail as you'd get from the 20D.

Crop a 5D shot to the 20D's sensor size, your left with 5MP.

5MP vs 8MP seems rather different for detail, and if the new 20D hits 10MP, it will double the 5D's pixel density...

Thanks for your considered comments guys.

Mention of a new 20D with more megpixels has now got me worried - the old question - do I wait?

Thanks

That's not bad still, my 300D was 6MP and 30x20inch prints from the two of them look very similar on my wall.

I wouldn't wait myself. I think they'll keep the 1.6X crop, and 10MP will introduce more noise.

For common print sizes up to 8"x10", its true 5MP vs 8MP makes little difference, at 30x20 with a decent printer, you should see a difference?

Biggest concern of having 5MP vs 8MP, would be for cropping. If you like taking images of birds for example, often with a 20D you find the need to crop quite a bit, even with a 400mm lens and 1.4x TC attached. Thats were having a 8MP or 10MP cropped sensor is very useful.

Never wait for anything... life's too short

Why? You know what the 20D will do now. You know what the 5D can do now. You don't know what the "new" camera will do, or even when it will be released. You can't take pictures with a camera that doesn't exist. If your decision is that the 5D doesn't offer anything for your shooting style, then waiting may be the right move. But if a 5D covers you nicely, what's the point in waiting for a 20D successor that might not do what you need anyhow and missing some great shooting in the mean time?

Ok let me throw in my two cents. First off let me say that there are some misconceptions going on around here. Or at least I think there are.

First the crop factor is exactly that, a crop. As we all know a .6x sensor only uses 66% of the funtioning area of a lens. So why that would be considered a bonus I am not sure. It's not like it gives you a longer focal length. It just gives you a more narrow focal angle. Now someone did say that with a full frame sensor you need better lenses. That is a VERY good and VERY valid point. Lens distortion happens at the edges. So in order to get good quality in the 33% that was previously "unseen" by the sensor you need to invest in goo leses.

As for the sensor. It is true that the 5D has a lower pixel density. But that is good. The photosites that are on the sensor have more room between them allowing for faster heat dissipitation and a lower magnetic signature. Also the photosite on the 5D sensore are larger than the 20D sensor. That is why the 5D has a wider color range and is more sesnsitive to red hues than the 300D or 20D.

The 20D does have a hand up on the frame rate, but it is slight. And it does come with a pop-up flash. But I can't imagine anyone actually using it but in case of absolute emergency.

Something I didn't see mentioned early was that the 20D has "preset modes" on the mode dial. The 5D does not. However the 5D has a much better and more customizable "software" shootng mode. Also, do you have EF-S lenses already? If so you can not use them with the 5D. And the 5D is a beefier, heavier camera. And let me tell you, having used it to shoot all day horse shows, that things does get heavy. And lastly it is more than twice as expensive as a 20D.

But would I trade my 5D for a 20D? Never. My 5D takes shots that are fabulous, have great color and require less post processing. My LCD display on the back is large and gorgeous. The viewfinder is comfortable. And if nothing else go to a camera store and look through a 20D. Then take the same lense and look at the object at the same focial length through a 5D and you will see how much nicer FF can be.

My advice? If you have the cash go for a 5D and get yourself some decent glass. It will change your mind about shooting. And also consider this, I have never heard a 5D owner lament on how he wanted a 20D. It's just a leap that you have to make to be able to appreciate it. Before I got my 5D I wondered how could the 1Ds MarkII really be worth it. Having come a tad bit closer to that level, now I can imagine that it is.

Oh as for waiting, don't do it. You will spend your whole life waiting for the next hot body. Take the leap and accept that soon your camera will be yesterday's model and that doesn't change a thing. Too many people (me too) get caught up in the "I have the LATEST body!" stigma.

Prophet out.

basically, what you are expected to do is to buy as much as you can afford whether you need it or not, everything can be justified later.

But if you have to ask the question here on this forum a out whether to upgrade or buy more...you are a sucker.
You are asking the wolves about the sheep's rights. And you are going to ge answers that very little signifigance for your quest.
Get a 20 D and get shooting. Situations will tell what else you are going to need. More pixels, faster processing whatever.
Just start somewhere an correct after.
Make mistakes and have fun...

I also had the urge to upgrade the 20D to the 5D. After much thought, I didn't take Canon's bait. The 2 biggest 5D advantages for me are FF sensor & 12MP (I do a lot of cropping so the more MP the better).

But neither feature is worth the cost of the upgrade. Because both 5D advantages can be overcome by taking multiple shots of the subject and then stitching the pictures together. As for the distortion effect of wide angle lenses, I can do that with my film camera since I rarely take those type of pictures.

I may consider the upgrade again when Canon comes out with another FF DSLR at a lower price.