How bad are center column and leg sections for tripod stability?

Heya!

Today I've been doing some research into tripods and have learned a lot so far. There's some things I would like cleared up/to know.
Which properties are bad for tripods?
I'm mainly look at two things here:
- Center column
- Leg sections
If there's other properties that are bad (like these), I'd also like to know.

I've read that both 'greatly' reduce stability and would like to know if this is true, and if so, how much.
I use a Manfrotto 190XDB right now and am quite happy with it. It's no state-of-the-art machinery, but it's light, and it works. My biggest annoyance is that the center column is really wobbly when unscrewed, but when tightened it's ok I guess. How do high-end tripods fair with these problems? Does using the/a center column reduce stability (extended or at the base)?
And what about leg sections. It's logical that 4 leg sections are less stable than 3 sections, but how big of a difference is it?

Ok tripod experts, teach me!

There are some exceptions to the number of leg sections = less stability...for Gitzo there appears to not be a perception of less stability with the 4-section legs vs. with the 3-section legs. But in general, if you nest more sections the innermost section has to be smaller diameter and less resistant to vibration and flex.

It is pretty universally held that a center column raised virtually always decreases stability. A really good tripod might be bettter in that regard than a budget tripod, but max stability means no use of the center column.

Wilt wrote in post #14288350
There are some exceptions to the number of leg sections = less stability...for Gitzo there appears to not be a perception of less stability with the 4-section legs vs. with the 3-section legs. But in general, if you nest more sections the innermost section has to be smaller diameter and less resistant to vibration and flex.

It is pretty universally held that a center column raised virtually always decreases stability. A really good tripod might be bettter in that regard than a budget tripod, but max stability means no use of the center column.

Ok thanks. I was mainly talking about high quality carbon fiber tripods here - Gitzo, but also lesser brands like Feisol. Would leg sections have negative influence on the stability with lower-end, but still good-quality, brands like that?

As for center columns: Even with top-of-the-line brands like Gitzo the quality gets reduced greatly?

If you need a center column for a stand up shoot, the tripod is too short for you. And if you have bend way over, the tripod is too tall. Folks forget most major brands have several lengths of tripods available.

I think you'll find it's less the number of sections to a tripod's legs than it is the diameter of the smallest (usually bottom) section. So a skinny bottom section of a 3-section tripod can leave you with a shakier tripod than a fat bottom section on a 4-section one. And you can't neglect the construction of the tubes, either. A solid (thick) tube will be sturdier than a thin one (that may weigh less). But the center column is just a monopod standing on your tripod.

MCAsan wrote in post #14288994
If you need a center column for a stand up shoot, the tripod is too short for you. And if you have bend way over, the tripod is too tall. Folks forget most major brands have several lengths of tripods available.

Yeah true. I'm mainly asking because I want a short folded-up tripod, but long when fully extended. I'm 6'5 so want a larg(er) tripod, but I want it to be 60cm (23") max folded. And I rather not have a center column because those things just don't make me feel good (seem unstable). That's why I would like answers to these two questions.

It doesn't look there exists a non-center column tripod, with 4 leg sections that's about 160cm when fully extended though. I don't really care for weight too much. A light tripod is nice, but anything under 2kg is just fine. My current tripod is 1.6kg and I find it very light (even though it's aluminum).

Not only how skinny the little section is as Jon mentioned. But the quality of the connections on the leg. There are cheap section connections that will hold 50 pounds no problem, but at the same time wiggle like crazy. In this case the number of sections wil greatly reduce/increase the ammount of wiggle it has.

And the farther you extend the center colum the more of a monopod you have. totally defeating the stability the 3 legs give you. go all the way and you realy have nothing more than a monopod clamped to a tripod.

I'm 5'7" and prefer to buy tripods such that I do not have to fully extend the skinniest sections at the bottom when standing up.

Just something to think about.

I use the center column on my Gitzo to be able to conveniently go up or down a few inches without having to reset the legs. It looks odd to me when I see a tripod user with the center column extended fully as a normal way of shooting.

What about the Gitzo GT 3542LS?

www.gitzo.com/photo-tripods-systematic?n=0&va=t

MCAsan wrote in post #14289891
What about the Gitzo GT 3542LS?

www.gitzo.com/photo-tripods-systematic?n=0&va=t

This is what I was looking at actually. That or a 2 series. I reckon the bottom leg section would be really thin (and thus unstable, according to Jon), right?

Also, I'm really surprised by how much these super-expensive CF Gitzo pods weigh. My manfrotto is 1.6kg and Gitzo with about the same specs weigh 1.8kg... How's that? Especially when something like a Feisol 3441 weighs 1.1kg...?

TijmenDal wrote in post #14291246
This is what I was looking at actually. That or a 2 series. I reckon the bottom leg section would be really thin (and thus unstable, according to Jon), right?

Also, I'm really surprised by how much these super-expensive CF Gitzo pods weigh. My manfrotto is 1.6kg and Gitzo with about the same specs weigh 1.8kg... How's that? Especially when something like a Feisol 3441 weighs 1.1kg...?

Wrong. I use the 2-series Gitzo (GT2540), mainly for compactness since I do a lot of hiking...the bottom leg section is pretty stout. The tripod is also very stable...no vibration issues whatsoever, even when shooting in water, wind, etc. Unless you have very sensitive test equipment, you will not notice any response difference between a 4-section or 3-section Gitzo. The notion that "ALL 4-section tripods" are unstable is a fallacy.

A center column will always affect stability. About the only time you'd want a tripod with a center column is with travel tripod, where small size is important. Then you want to select a tripod that requires the shortest center column extension for your height, which can be a challenge.

Leg sections are not quite so clear-cut. Most people consider 5 leg sections to be undesirable, and many think that a 4 leg section tripod is less stable than a 3 leg section one. I've seen vibration test results that pitted a 4 leg section against a 3 leg section tripod of two of the top brands, and the 4 leg section tripod was marginally better on the vibration charts. It's entirely possible that the section screw locks are the relevant variable rather than the carbon fiber tubes. Also most people seem to think that the best way of minimizing vibration on a 4 leg section tripod is to simply not use the lowest section. However you get better results by shortening all the sections, although obviously it's time-consuming and inconvenient. However when you want the best results...

You are correct, the new Gitzos are heavy, and it's not clear why. There is a big new triangular shaped main casting though, maybe that's it. However it does seem to be in keeping with Gitzos apparent new policy of updating their tripods with new models that have worse specs and jacking the price up at the same time. If you're interested in the 3542LS see if you can find a used or new 3541LS which is a much better value.

I have removed the centre column on my carbon 3 section 055. Stability was a consideration but whether I'll ever notice the difference is very debatable!

Another reason was I simply never used it on the aluminium 055 I had before, so why bother? Lastly, it makes the whole thing a fraction lighter.

A Manfrotto salesman was fascinated to see it recently when my local camera shop ran a kind of "open day". I had a friend turn me up a little insert that the M10 ballhead is screwed onto, which sits in the "hole. I discussed with the rep whether Manfrotto do an "official" adaptor for the job but he said not.

The centre column can be reinserted in a few seconds, but swopping the ballhead over would take some considerable time.

peter_n wrote in post #14292011
You are correct, the new Gitzos are heavy, and it's not clear why. There is a big new triangular shaped main casting though, maybe that's it. However it does seem to be in keeping with Gitzos apparent new policy of updating their tripods with new models that have worse specs and jacking the price up at the same time. If you're interested in the 3542LS see if you can find a used or new 3541LS which is a much better value.

Would you say the 3541 is a better tripod than the 3542? It seems to defeat a big part of the purpose of buying a CF tripod when it's heavier than my aluminum one...

argyle wrote in post #14291448
Wrong. I use the 2-series Gitzo (GT2540), mainly for compactness since I do a lot of hiking...the bottom leg section is pretty stout. The tripod is also very stable...no vibration issues whatsoever, even when shooting in water, wind, etc. Unless you have very sensitive test equipment, you will not notice any response difference between a 4-section or 3-section Gitzo. The notion that "ALL 4-section tripods" are unstable is a fallacy.

Good to know. Thanks for your input!