Sigma EF-500 vs 430EX

I know the 580ex can power other flashes. I do not think that I will need that. I only wonder if the extra power will come in handy or if it is not that much different to warrant $140 more in price.

Think of it more in terms of recycle times than actual output. For example, what the 580EX considers 1/4 power, the 430EX might consider full power*. The 580 can pop off more shots faster because it's only using 1/4 its capacity, thus recycling faster. The 430 on the other hand, is straining its little guts out, forcing you to wait between charges.

Whether that matters much to you (ask yourself how much you think you would actually be using the 430EX's full output) depends on your applications.

*used this figure just as an example...I doubt 1/4 to full is the exact ratio.

How is that the fault of the flash? Of course the ambient lighting isn't visible at 1/200th when it's competing with a flash. Use the same exposure settings and no flash and you'll see how dark it is.

Well I got my 430Ex. And I must say I am disppointed. This could be because I don't really understand flashes yet. The last flash I used on an SLR was on a Nikon F2. Things have changed! I haven't noticed too much of a different between the popup and the 430 yet, but I wasn't shooting subjects from much of a distance.

Also I noticed that when bouncing off a low white ceiling, I was getting a real warm color temperature. Perhaps the flash just isn't powerful enough, or I am not bouncing properly. Also I noticed that when shooting with my 50mm f/1.4 lens, in P mode, it was selecting 1/60 sec at f/4, but when I changed to AV, TV, or M mode I was only able to get off a shot at 1/60 @ f/1.4. Don't understand that. The manual really is worthless that comes with the flash. Any suggestions?

After reading this forum I bought a 430EX yesterday. I played around with it for a few shots last night and on the whole I was disappointed with the results. The flash seems no more powerful than the pop-up. I have a Digital Rebel.

The instruction manual is not worth much because there is no real explanation of the functions.

I couldn't complain about the price - I paid $180 for it (but that's a whole different story).

I plan to use the flash at a family wedding in 2 weeks and I need to train myself on its usage. The only other wedding I have taken photos for was outside - and that turned out extremely well until I had to take shots at the indoor reception (dull and blury).

I will try again tonight and use compensation to see if I can get brighter shots, but for now the only benefit I see is a fast flash cycle time and less draw on the camera's battery.

Why is the frame to side mount the flash so darn expensive? I would have thought $30-$40 rather than $200.

I am thinking of trying to get advance access to the church to see if I can practice using their lighting.

Nick take a picture of something with the flash and then the samething with the pop up flash.

In certain situations you won't see much difference between the pop flash and a shoe mount, regardless of the power output of the shoe mount flash. That's called ETTL II. The pop flashes on the 20D and 350D do a fairly adequate job for what it's designed for. It does have it's limitations however and that is what will seperate the shoe mount flash from the pop flash. Can you bounce the pop flash off of a wall behind you? Or a seam where the ceiling meets the wall at an angle? Try that with ETTL and the shoe mount and I'm sure you'll see HUGE differences in your lighting. Also, your pop flash can only be varied in output power while the shoe mount flash can also be varied in the beam width. Sort of like how a mag light works where you can get a nice wide diffuse beam or a narrow hard beam. Understand what the shoe mount flash is designed to do before getting too dissapointed in it. Direct flash is direct flash and if you are a few feet from your subject, both flashes will expose your subject pretty much the same. The shoe flash will have more reach than the pop flash so longer distances will be more of a challenge without the shoe flash. Try this and tell me if you are still unimpressed. Get someone to stand about 6 or so feet away from you. You stand with your back to a wall about 3 or 4 feet(make sure the wall is white) Turn your shoe flash completely around and aim it up on the wall some over your shoulder. Now, frame and shoot your subject. After you do that... I challenge you to reproduce that same exposure with just your pop flash. Also, be sure your walls and ceilings are really white. Even an eggshell or offwhite will give you a slightly different cast. And be sure that when you bounce it, you are using an angle that's appropriate for your subject. If you're 4 or 5 feet away and bouncing it straight up, it's not going to do much good. Then it's better to bounce off of a wall nearby.

Interesting Forkball. I posted a few shots that test the difference between the popup and shoe-mounted 430EX. They were converted from RAW without any exposure/color balance correction. The captions give the IPTC data and shooting conditions. There are only a few shots, but that's all I have time for tonight.

I only wonder if I should have gotten the Sigma 500DG, for more power/reach, and it it would make much of a difference for what I am shooting (family snapshots indoor). Most of my creative stuff is outdoors in available lighting. Here are the tests. Again the captions tell the IPTC data and whether it was shoe v. popup.
http://ascohen.smugmug​.com/gallery/1224530

askohen wrote:
Interesting Forkball. I posted a few shots that test the difference between the popup and shoe-mounted 430EX. They were converted from RAW without any exposure/color balance correction. The captions give the IPTC data and shooting conditions. There are only a few shots, but that's all I have time for tonight.

I only wonder if I should have gotten the Sigma 500DG, for more power/reach, and it it would make much of a difference for what I am shooting (family snapshots indoor). Most of my creative stuff is outdoors in available lighting. Here are the tests. Again the captions tell the IPTC data and whether it was shoe v. popup.
http://ascohen.smugmug​.com/gallery/1224530

I looked at the samples and it almost appears as though the direct 430ex is slightly less intense as the popup flash at the same settings. It looks like it's allowing some of the ambient fluorencent lights to influence the coler temperature as well which would explain the slightly orange tint. That is a bit unexpected. The bounced 430ex is slightly less effected, but effected more than the popup flash. What is your WB set to the exif just says manual? I know the 430ex is supposed to communicate WB with the camera so that is odd. The best exposure level though is the bounced light as it's the most even, but with that color cast you can't really tell. The pop flash looks a bit overexposed and it's a harder lighting. Try with a custom white balance.

The WB is set to flash for all shots. According to what I read with, E-TTLII that will yeild the same results as set to Auto White Balance. The Canon documentation is lousy, including the various iterations of Flash Work. By far the best article I have read is http://photonotes.org/​articles/eos-flash/.
I think that explains a lot. In a nutshell, you can't expect that much more from an external unit shoe mounted than you can from a popup. With an external, of course, you can bounce and you have more options in terms of settings. But you shouldn't expect the world from a speedlite. Also, you will need a tripod if you are shooting in Aperture Prio (AP) or Shutter Prio (SP) and you are using a longer lens. That is because with AP or SP you are using slower shutter speeds to expose the background properly. I am not sure why the EOS system assumes that when you use AP or SP you want to use a slower shutter speed. Perhaps someone can explain that.

Tried another test. Posted a few pictures comparing 430EX vs. Popup flash in different program modes, direct and bounced. Again IPTC and other info is in caption. All shots are using camera set to flash WB, and are converted to JPG using default Adobe Camera RAW (ACR) settings for Canon 20D. No adjustment has been made in ACR, except a 35 global sharpening.
http://ascohen.smugmug​.com/gallery/1227110

The system assumes that with aperture priority (Av) or shutter priority (Tv), you want the camera to try to expose for ambient light. That's what those modes are for. Ambient light metering and flash metering are two separate measurements.

If you want to use flash as your primary light source, use Manual mode. Now, the camera assumes only that you want it to do what you tell it. Set your shutter at flash sync speed or slightly slower. Set your aperture and ISO to manage DOF and flash range, and let E-TTL take care of the metering.

I am confused regarding several items:

1. What is the max synch speed on the 20D? Nowhere can I find this in any documentation. Ugh.
   
2. How do I set the synch speed. Ie, in M mode will it synch at any shutter speed I deem appropriate? So, let's say I am shooting with a 50mm on the 20D, but want to handhold. Therefore I want to shoot at 1/80--1/125 s. Do I just set the shutter speed to 1/80 or 1/125 s, and choose the appropriate aperture and ISO? Do I need to use the H button on the 430EX?
   
3. There is also a manual mode on the flash, which I assume adjusts the flash output. That is totally different than M mode on the body, right?
   
4. So, to confirm, P mode tries to take into account ambient and subject; AV and TV assume you are in daylight, using fill flash and want to use a wide aperture to blur the background; and M mode meters for ?

1/250. It's in the manual somewhere.

Yes, use M mode and set the shutter speed. If you set a speed faster than 1/250, it will revert to 1/250 when you half-press the shutter if the flash is turned on (the exception to this is FP flash, aka "high speed sync").

Correct. Manual flash is best used in controlled situations where you can meter and adjust to get the exposure you want.

The camera ALWAYS tries to meter for ambient light, if you let it. The exception to this is that in P mode it won't use a shutter speed slower than 1/60 if the flash is on. In M mode, the meter in the viewfinder is metering ambient light. That's the only thing it has to measure. Obviously if you're indoors and set your camera to 1/250, f/8, ISO 100 in M mode the meter will be blinking on -2, but you have no reason to care if you're using flash.

It can be very confusing until you start to think of every flash picture as two exposures in one. There is the ambient light exposure, which you or the camera can adjust via shutter speed, aperture and ISO. Then there is the flash exposure, which the camera's E-TTL II flash metering system measures with the preflash and adjusts via flash output, taking aperture and ISO into account.

By far the best documentation I found on Flash photography with the EOS cameras is at http://photonotes.org/​articles/eos-flash/index.html
Note that there are 3 parts.