Why are photographers who use Auto modes so mocked by others?

fotoworx wrote in post #14301706
Why are photographers who use Auto modes so mocked by others? You see it on every photography forum.

In auto mode Canon cameras have no single point AF, which makes this mode useless.

tonylong wrote in post #14311567
Heh! You know, it's funny. Maybe because of this thread or another one but I had been messing with my camera and left it in the P mode.

Today, I saw a scene that interested me because of the play of sunlight and shadows, so I grabbed my gear. I took a shot, and then realized I was in P mode, which would not be my choice for an outdoor shoot, so I switched to M and also bumped things up a bit to "Expose To The Right"...OK, I'm just playin', but which is better?!

I prefer the composition of the first one but the exposure of the second.

Preeb wrote in post #14316879
I prefer the composition of the first one but the exposure of the second.

Heh! Well, I was going for a couple different viewpoints.

Actually I was after the interesting shadow more than the "bigger picture", but, it's all good!

fotoworx wrote in post #14301706
Why are photographers who use Auto modes so mocked by others? You see it on every photography forum.

I think you are misunderstanding what is going on....

In my experience when someone comes on here that is new, clearly doesn't understand the exposure triangle, and shoots primarily or exclusively in Auto or Program mode, people tend to SUGGEST they learn to use Manual to improve their photography overall. So that they have better control and can then CHOOSE when to use Auto, Program, Av, Tv, and Manual purposely to meet their current need. This is especially done when the biggest issue with the shot is clearly caused by using Auto or Program.

This may be misunderstood at times as an insult, and rarely the person is actually mocked, but the vast majority of the time we just try to help out.

It CAN be used an insult in that manner, but the vast majority of the time it is used to TEASE. Again, when people come on here that we can tell use Program or Auto only then we tend to try to educate them. When a pro, semi-pro, or experienced amateur that clearly understands the exposure triangle comes on here and posts a bad shot (perhaps to ask a related question), we TEASE them about it. As a tease it is an "insult", but it is an insult meant in jest, which is very different from a true insult. Among men, and a lot of us are men, teasing is a way to show someone they are accepted and part of the group, and frequently that is all that is going on.

Because the computer is better at focusing when the DOF is narrow than I, or virtually any other human is, but the computer absolutely SUCKS compared to me, and anyone who spends a few weeks/months practicing at getting exposure right.... And when the computer gets better at exposure than I am I will happily let it do that for me (I am guessing ~2040-2050, and it will be a wifi-connected cloud-based semi-AI that I can discuss my intent with if it doesn't get it right away), but right now it isn't even in the same realm.

See above. The focus of P teasing is towards people that should know better, not towards actual P shooters, who mostly get hit with suggestions on how to get better, if they will accept the advice.

It isn't about purism. It is about knowing how to use your tools to maximize your creativity and image quality. Auto and P can get you a great shot, but you rely too much on luck when you use them. Moving to Manual allows you to intentionally MAKE the shot great instead of lucking into it.

This isn't about not letting the camera do things for you. It is about having creative control. The reason people that use Av and Tv a lot suggest that others use Manual is because you need to understand the entire exposure triangle to use Av and Tv at their best, and practicing and learning to be comfortable with Manual is the best way to do this. Then you can move to Av and Tv with confidence, or stick to Manual if you want. It then becomes your CHOICE what setting to use instead of your having no choice at all.

ChunkyDA wrote in post #14301802
...opens bag of popcorn...

Hmm...
Sorry I've arrived late to the party, I but do have choc-tops.

arentol wrote in post #14317270
I think you are misunderstanding what is going on....

I do see it a lot -

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1176519

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #14302190
It ain't rocket surgery...

If I want to control motion: Tv
If I want to control DOF: Av
If nothing is changing or if I have complete control: Manual

Why do some feel the need to equate photography with some mysterious sociological pattern?

Love it, I have saved this, simple advice that is worth remembering.

Are you saying that "P" mode doesn't stand for professional. I use which ever mode that captures what I see and feel at the time and sometimes that is Auto.

Calicajun wrote in post #14318746
Are you saying that "P" mode doesn't stand for professional. I use which ever mode that captures what I see and feel at the time and sometimes that is Auto.

Similarly one might conclude that 'M' is for 'mocking user'?!

I guess it may be some folks are 'sensitive' to the idea that maybe the camera is what is creating the picture...

there are times when the auto modes work real well. evenly lit scenes with a narrow range of light. In those instances, it's a great feature of the tool to take advantage of, just in labor savings.

On the other hand, if what you want to capture is beyond the auto mode's capability to compensate for, your 'stuck' going to manual, and using your brain to determine how to properly expose to get what you want.

If you never find yourself in that position (ha!), well and good. But has anyone noticed the questions that inevitably lead to the whole 'you've never used M have you" throw down seem to revolve around said auto shooter asking 'how do I get this shot?' Followed by a quick 'expose for the dark area', which is then followed by a "is that Av or Tv or P mode?".... and it goes downhill from there...

<shrug>

I had a carpenter come by to help me reframe my hot tub this weekend. I'm still drooling from the array of tools he has available, and am in awe of his skill at knowing exactly when to use each one. My lack of experience and lack of insight into HOW to build this frame out, and WHY it has to be done a certain way wouldn't keep me from acquiring all the same tools. But they don't come with an 'auto design' mode, and no step by step walkthrough on the internet is going to teach me how to find all the little 'one off' situations in this project that this fellow just took a look at, did a little math and whipped his saw and square out to make it work...

Right tool for the right job. If you can't get the shot you want, and you can't use manual, well, the problem isn't the camera, it's the photographer

fotoworx wrote in post #14318410
I do see it a lot -

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1176519

I didn't see any "mockery" in that thread.

The OP said that the main photographer shot in P mode and didn't get very good results. Who knows why that was, since the photog was shooting with a flash, but I didn't see "mocking" in the discussion. In fact, there were some pretty good responses...?

As to why someone might be questioned or criticized for shooting in an Auto mode or the P mode, well, I'd say that would depend on the output. If the output is great, what's to criticize? If not, well...

fotoworx wrote in post #14318410
I do see it a lot -

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1176519

I see you do indeed misunderstand. Nobody on that thread (only read up to the point where you linked back to this thread) was mocking anyone for using program mode.

The OP was expressing concern about a paid professional photographer that was putting out (in his opinion) an inferior product, due in part (in his opinion) to using program mode and shooting jpeg only, as well as a host of other things like using a kit lens and no off camera flash. More importantly he was expressing concern about a photographer who had complaints about her own work but refused to listen to suggestions on how to improve her work product for her clients and instead just tried to blame the lab for her own shortcomings (in his opinion).

That is NOT mocking.

The people responding actually mostly supported the pro photographer, and those not supporting were mostly just concerned about the clients of the photographer.

That is also not mocking.

As I said, you misunderstand what is really happening.

Sorry for jumping in late here.....

But there is no valid reason for this that I can see. It just happens. Much like us old V8 racers used to make fun of people when they were just starting to race the import cars. We used to call them "Race cars for the tachophobia" (fear of speed). There is nothing to back any of it up. Many of the industry validated pros regularly use other modes than M. True P is almost never one of them. But even P has its times where it is useful.

I'd say that there is a tendency to poke some fun at the "Guy With Camera"/"Mom With Camera" who rushes out to buy a DSLR and then tries to use it as a "glorified point and shoot", whether it be the GWC trying to shoot a wedding or the MWC trying to shoot the kid's soccer game, without knowing how to use the camera to get the needed shots, shooting in the Green Box mode and then wondering why they are not getting "professional" results.

And then, yeah, once in a while we do hear stories about "wedding pros" who have the same problem -- they are charging but with very little clue as to how to use their gear.

So, yeah, those stories can get a chuckle, maybe some folks will be a bit mocking, even though most of us won't go there. After all, we all started out knowing nothing...

Now, though, if a real pro actually knows what they are doing and produces the results to show that and still for whatever reason picks a shooting mode that maybe I wouldn't, well, who am I to poke fun at him/her? If they are actually earning (and deserving) the pay, well, I don't even shoot for pay, so there!

OHMIGOSH. This is the discussion that never stops. I've seen it over decades about photography, but the near-identical discussion occurs in cars, watches, calculators, etc. Just about any place one human tries to look superior to another human, there will be this behavior and companies that market to that behaviour.

I'm old enough to remember the "I would NEVER...." discussion in photography for:

1) Meters; PROS could guess the proper exposure
2) Meters inside cameras; PROS used hand-held meters
3) 35mm cameras; PROS used 120 film at a minimum
4) Automatic exposure; PROS just have to override the settings
5) Automatic flash; PROS manually calculate the flash exposure
6) Autofocus; PROS focus their own cameras
7) Digital; PROS use film
8) RAW; PROS use RAW, JPEG is for amateurs

Alas, this is the human condition. And companies sell products with features meant to differentiate them from lesser products just to prey on this attitude.