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Thread started 29 Apr 2012 (Sunday) 01:53
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i know i know, but 60d v. 7d, in the professional mind?

 
crbnfibr
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Apr 29, 2012 01:53 |  #1

so im sorry for starting another one of these threads but i gotta know how the people in the business feel... im not a pro, ive done 7 weddings, a couple sports gigs, head shots, and random events. i went to school for business and photography, then i got into landscaping, the money was good so i stuck around there for way to long.... my body is starting to fail at 29 so im really thinking about doing what i love.

so my main question is i want to upgrade from the 20d/xti, i was leaning hard towards the 7d because i do a lot of hockey, snowboarding, and sports in general. However i went to a birthday party today and took about 200 photos with my dads 60D/24-70, and first off, not sold on the lens cause ive been hooked on the 28-200, but the 60d is sick, i used the 7d at the store but not for an event... the display on the 60d rocked my world!!! so now im super confused.. da f!

i will be quitting my weekend job(i work 7 days a week) so that i can learn my new gear, i need to know how the professionals view the 60d/7d in the gear resume... i know i can buy an attachment for the 7d to make an articulating display, but that just adds 2-3 hundo extra to the 7d and it's not really the same...

i frequent the c-list for gigs and theres a lot of t3i do not apply... so as my gear list, 7d v 60d huge difference or what?? i plan to apply to alot of these adds over the summer... also feel free to comment on my other issues...

i have a wedding(for one of my best friends) in aug and i feel super pressed to get comfortable with my new gear... whatever i get i plan to couple with a 24-105L
any help will be much appreciated

danke, adrian


k1000 se, xti, 20d, 7d, 28-200, 75-300 :( , 24-105L

  
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MRLSeries
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Apr 29, 2012 02:59 |  #2

I would buy the 60D over the 7D.........WHY?


They are the same camera. Complain if you must members but its pointless saying that 7D is far better.


Its like my 2.8ghz computer performs better than your 2.6ghz computer. Technically if we measured it on diagnostic gear , yes it would, but surfing on the internet and checking email, you would not know the difference.

You can't tell the difference in images from a 60D to 7D. I have even spoken to Canon dealers and they agree. Big deal the 7D has a slightly faster processing chip that does the job .000087% faster than the 60D. Who cares!

Now we are comparing apples with apples, just choose the flavour your like.

If we compare 60D/7D to 5DMk3, then we have a different situation. The picture quality will be slightly nicer, I say slightly, it wont be chalk and cheese. A pro camera in my opinion offers features that relate to it price level, such as better weather support, longer shutter life, durable body, faster motor drive etc etc.......


If you want a new camera that will give you nice pics( so long as you know how to take them) and want mechanical reliability, than save your money and buy the 5Dmk3 or higher.


I use the 60D, do i regret buying it?.....NO

Sure there are anal retentive jerks that will tell you that our 60D is not a match for their 5dmk3 or higher. Well I can tell you , I have shot work that you could place in front of a panel of judges, tell them they were shot using 1DMk X and they will believe it.

The manufacturers are making some very high quality gear now in the low price division.

I like high end stuff and will purchase a 5dmk2, mk3 or 1dmkx one day. The decision will solely be based on the mechanical reliability of the unit and not the picture it takes, cause we know a good lens shines on any body, but a cheap body won't last in the bowels of a safari shoot for National Geographic amongst the rain and dusty environment.




  
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mickeyb105
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Apr 29, 2012 03:31 |  #3

Adrian,

If you are in the United States (you signed off in German, so I'm not sure) make sure you look into the Canon Loyalty Program for your purchase of either the 60D or 7D. Through it, the 60D is available for $640+tax and the 7D for $1080+tax (both refurbished by Canon). This will save you hundreds off new!

As a 60D owner, I use my pics to run with my stories in a weekly paper owned by a large publishing company. Our budget is tight and we have no full-time photographer. My Nikon D40 wasn't cutting it for my specialty, sports. I shoot a lot of evening field sports (football, baseball, lax, and more) and some indoor sports like volleyball and basketball.

The 60D was endorsed by another POTN member I've known since high school. He recommended it due to the affordable price point, ease of use, and low-light shooting ability. The 5.3 FPS I get out of this camera is adequate for sports, but the 8 FPS of the 7D would be even better. I have no issues whatsoever with the 60D, though. So far, this camera has been spot-on for me and his recommendation was perfect. I also shoot some landscape and portrait, and the 60D is solid there too.

A number of my photographer friends use 7D's as either their backup camera or their dedicated sports camera. One of them has a 5D II for landscapes/portraits, the other a 5Dc for weddings. Both love their 7D's.

I find the articulating screen to be a game-changer, and that will keep the 60D in my bag for awhile. I had to take a few over-the-head shots today at an event I was covering to reach over the crowd. Also, the 60D is insanely easy to use coming over from the clunky Nikon D40. The 7D requires more learning and customization, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. If you can live without the articulating screen and you'll be shooting a healthy amount of sports, the 7D is hard to argue with.

From an image point of view, or how other pros perceive you, the 7D seems to be accepted as a very capable body in sports circles, journalism-style shooting and even for weddings. The 60D has never made anyone laugh at my face, even if 40D and 50D owners here regularly come out of the woodwork to call it things like a "plastic toy" or "super rebel". With a battery grip attached, the 60D's profile isn't so different from a 1D. From 15 feet away, you look the part to anyone but the most bitter camera snob.

Again, the game-changer is the articulating display. Not only is it handy for shooting over the head and below the knee (or around a corner), but people around you will ask to check out what you are shooting when the high-res screen flashes a pic. I was at a spring training baseball game last month when a baserunner was called out stealing second base. I happened to get a shot of it from the upper deck behind home plate with my 100mm/f2 lens. I cropped to second base to reveal the runner was out by about a foot, and showed it to the disbeliever two rows behind me. It was nice to prove i was right that the runner was out, yes, but it was an even better feeling that I got that great of IQ out of my camera/lens combo.

The 60D and 7D use the same sensor and have the same max shutter speed. The 7D has better weather sealing, although the 60D has some. The 7D's faster shooting and AF system, with MFA, is its trump card. The cameras have the same IQ, just the 7D's superior AF and MFA give you two more tools to help you produce the best image possible.

Good luck, you'll be getting a really great camera for a good price either way.


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hollis_f
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Apr 29, 2012 05:24 |  #4

MRLSeries wrote in post #14346685 (external link)
I would buy the 60D over the 7D.........WHY?


They are the same camera. Complain if you must members but its pointless saying that 7D is far better.

Wrong. In certain key areas the two cameras are massively different. And I own both.

The key areas are:

  • Frame rate. The 7D doesn't have a 'slightly faster chip that does the job 0.000078% faster' it uses the same chip as the 60D. But the 7D has two of them. That's why it can shoot at a much faster frame rate. Tis is very useful when shooting wildlife, sport or any other fast-moving subject.
  • Autofocus. The 60D's chip also has to handle autofocus, and it does a fair job of it. But the 7D has a separate processor dedicated to the job. This allows for a more advanced AF system which, if you bother to learn its complexities, will give better results than the 60D in some situation. Again, fast-moving subjects benefit from this.

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crbnfibr
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Apr 29, 2012 05:50 |  #5

hollis_f wrote in post #14346995 (external link)
Wrong. In certain key areas the two cameras are massively different. And I own both.

cheers... this really makes me think about it... ive made awesome shots in the past without an awesome screen, and i really want the speed... but also i think that if i get the 60d, thats 700$ closer to a 5d in 6months..... but then i go back to how much outdoor winter sports i do, so how does the 60d hold up in snow/rain.... the af is still kinda big for me too.. :/ fml


k1000 se, xti, 20d, 7d, 28-200, 75-300 :( , 24-105L

  
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MRLSeries
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Apr 29, 2012 06:11 |  #6

for a real camera get the Nikon D800


I can't wait to see if Canon pulls something soon to match it.

Is the 7D up for replacement soon?




  
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efoo
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Apr 29, 2012 06:27 |  #7

MRLSeries wrote in post #14347081 (external link)
for a real camera get the Nikon D800

I can't wait to see if Canon pulls something soon to match it.

Is the 7D up for replacement soon?

You are not being very helpful here mate. OP is asking about 60D and 7D, please stick to the topic, unless your intention is to instigate another "religious war" between Canon and Nikon.


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crbnfibr
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Apr 29, 2012 06:29 |  #8

efoo wrote in post #14347098 (external link)
You are not being very helpful here mate. OP is asking about 60D and 7D, please stick to the topic, unless your intention is to instigate another "religious war" between Canon and Nikon.

cheers, ive used canon my whole life besides k1000...


k1000 se, xti, 20d, 7d, 28-200, 75-300 :( , 24-105L

  
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sploo
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Apr 29, 2012 07:20 as a reply to  @ crbnfibr's post |  #9

I've got a 7D, my other half has the 60D.

As Frank's pointed out, the frame rate and AF on the 7D is quite a bit better than the 60D. The 7D also uses CF cards (vs. SD) and I tend to find their write performance higher.

The 7D is (for a non-1 series body) built like a tank. I prefer its ergonomics and bulk; my other half prefers the lighter build of the 60D. Both have suffered no problems with some testing conditions (e.g. -20C in winter night shooting conditions).

I prefer the general button feel and extra mini joystick on the 7D, but the 60D isn't really a problem in comparison.

The articulating screen on the 60D is either a robustness risk or a huge bonus, depending on your desired use. I like the 60D's screen for awkward shooting angles, but the 7D's LCD has a good viewing angle so it's not a massive problem in comparison.

From a bit of testing I've done, it appears the 7D suffers from some nasty banding issues in shadow details if you try to push the dark areas. The 60D shows a little of this, but it seems to be significantly better.

Given the above, I'd say:

    If you mainly shoot sports and action, prefer the 7D (AF and frame rate)

    If you mainly shoot macro, prefer the 60D (articulating screen)

    If you mainly shoot landscape, perhaps prefer the 60D (possibly less banding on pushed shadows)

    If you mainly shoot weddings, perhaps prefer the 7D (AF)


Do bear in mind the 24-105L on either body will be the equivalent of 38-168, so might not be ideal for landscape work. The 17-55 f2.8 might be preferable as a general lens, and/or one of the ultrawide EF-S zooms for landscape.

Both bodies can use their built-in flash to wirelessly control external Speedlight flashes, so there's unlikely to be a difference if you're a flash user.

As for how the professional's view the two cameras: certainly the 7D would be seen as the more 'pro' camera, but don't let that sway your decision. Use what's right for you. We've certainly noticed no real difference between the two bodies in terms of general shooting & image quality, and it's only hard pushing of shadows or sports work that would show up a difference.

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Apr 29, 2012 08:11 as a reply to  @ sploo's post |  #10

I wont directly tell you which camera to choose as that is your decision.

I will say that the 60d has the same AF system as the 50d which is very good. Before the 7d was out people took amazing sports photos with the 50d and 40d. These cameras didnt suddenly become wortlhess for sports once the 7d came out. so dont let the AF kill the 60d for you.
I have one and shoot birds in flight with it which is probably the hardest test of a camera's AF system. I would like the extra 2.7 frames per second though.

so if you can afford the 7d pretty easily (extra $500) it may be the better choice. you wont be disappointed.
If the $500 would put you closer to another nice lens (17-55 2.8) then the 60d may be the ticket.
as stated above the 60d takes SD cards so if that is an issue, keep it in mind.



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Apr 29, 2012 08:20 |  #11

MRLSeries wrote in post #14346685 (external link)
I would buy the 60D over the 7D.........WHY?


They are the same camera. Complain if you must members but its pointless saying that 7D is far better.


Its like my 2.8ghz computer performs better than your 2.6ghz computer. Technically if we measured it on diagnostic gear , yes it would, but surfing on the internet and checking email, you would not know the difference.

You can't tell the difference in images from a 60D to 7D. I have even spoken to Canon dealers and they agree. Big deal the 7D has a slightly faster processing chip that does the job .000087% faster than the 60D. Who cares!

Now we are comparing apples with apples, just choose the flavour your like.

If we compare 60D/7D to 5DMk3, then we have a different situation. The picture quality will be slightly nicer, I say slightly, it wont be chalk and cheese. A pro camera in my opinion offers features that relate to it price level, such as better weather support, longer shutter life, durable body, faster motor drive etc etc.......


If you want a new camera that will give you nice pics( so long as you know how to take them) and want mechanical reliability, than save your money and buy the 5Dmk3 or higher.


I use the 60D, do i regret buying it?.....NO

Sure there are anal retentive jerks that will tell you that our 60D is not a match for their 5dmk3 or higher. Well I can tell you , I have shot work that you could place in front of a panel of judges, tell them they were shot using 1DMk X and they will believe it.

The manufacturers are making some very high quality gear now in the low price division.

I like high end stuff and will purchase a 5dmk2, mk3 or 1dmkx one day. The decision will solely be based on the mechanical reliability of the unit and not the picture it takes, cause we know a good lens shines on any body, but a cheap body won't last in the bowels of a safari shoot for National Geographic amongst the rain and dusty environment.

Talk about misinformation incarnate.:lol: You must be a BestBuy employee.:rolleyes: Seriously, you need to check the specs and features out on both cameras before you start typing.
The 60d and 7d are both Canon dslr's and that's as close as to being the same as they get.

Btw, if you really think you can fool people with your 60d pics being as good as the 1DMk X, I suggest you start posting in that thread with the 60d pics and see if those owners agree.:lol:

Sorry if it sounds as if I'm being hard on you but every once in awhile I come across a post with above mentioned misinformation that really makes me laugh and cry at the same time.


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Apr 29, 2012 08:43 |  #12

crbnfibr wrote in post #14346543 (external link)
...i went to a birthday party today and took about 200 photos with my dads 60D/24-70, and first off, not sold on the lens cause ive been hooked on the 28-200... so as my gear list, 7d v 60d huge difference or what??... whatever i get i plan to couple with a 24-105L...

A 24-70 or 24-105 on a crop sensor body isn't wide enough for lots of interior shots. It equates to 38.4mm on a full frame body.

For shooting events on *either* a 60D or 7D crop sensor camera, a 17-55 2.8 is probably the best single lens. It just makes a huge difference.

If you plan on eventually going to a full frame body then a 24-70 or 24-105 is OK, but you'll need to pair it with a wider angle lens for the crop body and switch lenses a lot.

I've used both 60D and 7D and they are both good. The 7D has a faster frame rate and AF system. In some cases that makes a difference. I have a 5D3 now and it's a gigantic improvement, so if you can possibly afford it, get one of those. However...

...I've seen material from professional wedding photographers using a *20D* that's better anything I've ever shot. It's because they're very skillful, shoot raw and masterfully post-process their images.

Customers rarely know anything about cameras -- they just want the photos to look good. If they judge a prospective photographer by the bulk of his camera, put on the biggest lens hood you can find, add a big flash bracket and get a vest and put photo accessories in all the pockets.

Placing extreme emphasis on the camera body isn't the path to success. The greatest gains will be (1) Skill and technique at shooting (2) Good lens, and (3) Post processing.




  
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gunston
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Apr 29, 2012 09:09 as a reply to  @ joema2's post |  #13

hey, isn't the answer clear ???

7D


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Apr 29, 2012 09:17 |  #14

hey, isn't the answer clear

7D

+2 (one from me, the other from the wife who has her own)




  
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Apr 29, 2012 09:19 |  #15

jhayesvw wrote in post #14347328 (external link)
I will say that the 60d has the same AF system as the 50d which is very good. Before the 7d was out people took amazing sports photos with the 50d and 40d. These cameras didnt suddenly become wortlhess for sports once the 7d came out. so dont let the AF kill the 60d for you.

Amen.

With a proper lens you can shoot some good sports with the 60D. My setup isn't ideal for baseball, most of those photographers have 200, 300, and 400mm reach lenses. I had to make due with my 100/2 from the cheap seats and crop.

One of the hardest throwing pitchers in MLB history, Justin Verlander, caught in action with my 60D this spring. Taken through the screen at about 70 yards, unfortunately:


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And Ryan Raburn in mid-dive on a successful stolen base attempt. This shot was taken from about 90 yards out and cropped:

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i know i know, but 60d v. 7d, in the professional mind?
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