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Thread started 29 Apr 2012 (Sunday) 18:05
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Never Fear The Lowballers...

 
Channel ­ One
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Apr 29, 2012 18:05 |  #1

For they will do themselves in without your help.

Long story so I will keep it as short as possible, a number of months back I was contacted by an existing client to provide them with a proposal for video coverage of a “major” event, this would be a multi-camera switched on the fly, then up-loaded for live a streaming gig.

We would be responsible for providing all the equipment necessary, and the internet connection required to upload the content to “their” provider for streaming,

A proposal was drawn up and submitted and then comes the wait, I have worked with this client before and they always seem to push everything to the last minute, but we plan for that and work around it.

However, as the window needed to stage the logistics to pull this off was getting close to being closed, and not hearing back from the client, I made the “phone call,” now anyone in the business knows how this goes, you want a commitment and a good faith deposit but don’t want to come off as “begging for the business.”

I received a call back from the Administrative Assistant of the person who was in charge of coordinating the event (he was of course out of the office and not answering his cell for either of us), and was advised they decided to go with another contractor.

Oh well win some, lose some, and life goes on, hate to lose a long time account, but chit happens.

Fast forward to now, being inquisitive and having nothing scheduled that weekend I figured why not go and see just what did they buy into.

What I found was interesting, they had a four camera setup feeding a box connected to a Mac which was being used as a switcher, unfortunately for the guy doing the switching, he didn’t have monitors for his feeds, and the views of the cameras on his Mac’s screen failed to show minor problems such as a camera being focused at 12 feet when the subject was at 150 feet.

But that shouldn’t be a problem as he could get on the IFB and make sure his cameramen had a nice sharp focus, oh but he didn’t have IFB, as that crew was using hiking two-way radios such as found at Wallmart and nobody was answering his calls.

So sorry...

Their Internet connection was via a WiFi connection from the motel.

Wondering what their upload looked like, I contacted my son and requested he give me some feedback on its quality, luckily for me he was at home where he has a nice high speed connection to view their HD broadcast of the event.

His reply was something like “you have to be “bleeped” kidding me,” “based on the audio the event is happening, but the video they are streaming is a camera aimed at nothing,” “what the “bleeped” are they doing?

He captured the video stream and I viewed it later, and while I will never critique an amateurs work unless they ask of it, however, once you go pro your fair game and after reviewing the video the only thing I can say about them is Five Stooges…

Oh well, at least the client saved a thousand or so, which sadly, is about twenty percent of what I proposed to do the work properly.

By the way, I received a voice mail on my cell last night from the AA whom I spoke to earlier, and she advised me her boss was pulled into the “upper offices” and summarily fired, turns out his “video guys” not only blew the job up, the caterers he hired (another cost cutting idea) never showed up at all…

Oops.

Wayne


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BreitlingFan
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Apr 29, 2012 19:43 |  #2
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If that's how it played out, the only way you can know that they were lowballers would be if you presented a lowball price that they beat. Nothing in your post speaks to price, and odds are you wouldn't be made privy to what the other outfit was paid.

You lost the job to someone else, who then ran into some significant problems. It has nothing to do with the dollar amounts...


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Apr 29, 2012 21:17 |  #3

I love on the job training stories!


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isoMorphic
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Apr 30, 2012 04:02 |  #4

Sounds like you put a great deal of time and effort into trying to make yourself feel better about getting put on the bench. This is typical of Floridians and being one yourself you should know someone will always cut your throat even if they don't make a dime just to let you starve. I have a friend who is a mechanic in Miami who is the same way he wants $500 to change break pads. Then he complains that business is slow and customers are cheap because they don't appreciate quality workmanship. I tried to explain many times that it's not quality they are concerned about it's being able to put dinner on the table when the economy is in the dumpster.




  
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Channel ­ One
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Apr 30, 2012 05:18 |  #5

BreitlingFan wrote in post #14350033 (external link)
If that's how it played out, the only way you can know that they were lowballers would be if you presented a lowball price that they beat. Nothing in your post speaks to price, and odds are you wouldn't be made privy to what the other outfit was paid.

Actually not so, I have a copy of thier proposal which is how I know they cut my price by about 20%

You lost the job to someone else, who then ran into some significant problems. It has nothing to do with the dollar amounts...

In my opinion it has quite a bit to do with price, as based on what I saw they cut numerous corners in order to keep production costs as low as possible, stupid stuff like using a tethered Mac versus renting a switcher and a few monitors which didn't work out very well at all...

Wayne


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Apr 30, 2012 05:56 |  #6

isoMorphic wrote in post #14351779 (external link)
Sounds like you put a great deal of time and effort into trying to make yourself feel better about getting put on the bench.

Actually I was more interested in seeing how they where going to pull it off. This would have been the third year in a row for up to have produced this event and I knowing what it costs to do the job was actually wondering how they where able to cut my price so much and still make a profit and that question was quickly answered

This is typical of Floridians and being one yourself you should know someone will always cut your throat even if they don't make a dime just to let you starve.

Yea I have come across their type before and the good thing is they are usually self defecating, and knowing that the operators of the venue have a tendency to not pay contractors who fail to perform, I am quite willing to bet the only money they will ever see is the deposit check, that is if they actually received one…

Now they can go screaming to accounts payable till they are blue in the face and eventually the answer they will receive is “sue us, but keep in mind we will counter sue you for our losses” and that is a can of worms that any decent attorney will advise his client not to open.

The good news is we where asked to submit a proposal for another event for the same venue later this year and I am willing to bet the Five Stooges are not going to be on the short list for his one. ;-)a

Wayne


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Apr 30, 2012 11:31 |  #7
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Channel One wrote in post #14351920 (external link)
Actually not so, I have a copy of thier proposal which is how I know they cut my price by about 20%...

How did you go about obtaining that?


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Channel ­ One
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Apr 30, 2012 11:44 |  #8

BreitlingFan wrote in post #14353425 (external link)
How did you go about obtaining that?

I asked for it and was given a copy.

It is common in my business for a client to make an effort to get an existing vendor to price match, usually I will receive a copy of the other guys proposal with a note attached offering me the job if I can get my proposal in-line, with the other guys proposal.

We have a term for it, but I cannot post it in a public forum without being quickly banned.

Wayne


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charro ­ callado
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Apr 30, 2012 14:47 |  #9

Channel One wrote in post #14352000 (external link)
they are usually self defecating,

ha.




  
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Apr 30, 2012 14:59 |  #10

Channel One wrote in post #14349672 (external link)
What I found was interesting, they had a four camera setup feeding a box connected to a Mac which was being used as a switcher, unfortunately for the guy doing the switching, he didn’t have monitors for his feeds, and the views of the cameras on his Mac’s screen failed to show minor problems such as a camera being focused at 12 feet when the subject was at 150 feet.

But that shouldn’t be a problem as he could get on the IFB and make sure his cameramen had a nice sharp focus, oh but he didn’t have IFB, as that crew was using hiking two-way radios such as found at Wallmart and nobody was answering his calls.

So sorry...

Their Internet connection was via a WiFi connection from the motel.

Oh dear. Sounds like they were trying to live stream a major conference using podcasting equipment... what cameras were they using???


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Apr 30, 2012 16:06 |  #11

Switching on a laptop? Yeesh....

Yeah, I'm "old school" but it still has to be done as proper television until it hits the side of the truck / rack / case / camera.

Don't care if the final product goes to Uplink, Web, Tape or a BNC Terminator, if you do it cheap, it ends up looking cheap.


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Apr 30, 2012 16:10 |  #12

So you lost a contract to a "low baller" who undercut you by 20%, took the time to go to the venue to check out their handy work, which in your mind (and your son's) was sub-par (I guess it made you feel better?) and also found poetic justice in the fact that the person doing the hiring got fired?

OK then...




  
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Apr 30, 2012 16:11 |  #13

nicksan wrote in post #14355212 (external link)
So you lost a contract to a "low baller" who undercut you by 20%, took the time to go to the venue to check out their handy work, which in your mind (and your son's) was sub-par (I guess it made you feel better?) and also find poetic justice in the fact that the person doing the hiring got fired?

OK then...

You've never uttered the words "Told You So..." ?


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Apr 30, 2012 16:18 |  #14

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #14355222 (external link)
You've never uttered the words "Told You So..." ?

Me? All the time. Because I'm always right. But that's besides the point. :lol:;)

That's like me losing a contract to a $500 wedding photographer and me actually going to that wedding to check his/her work, finding out that he/she was shooting with a Digital Rebel + Kit Lens + pop-up lens, somehow getting access to the proofs and finding out that they indeed suck, and then finding out that the photographer got sued and then following up on the story. Then come on here to describe it in all its gory details.

Or maybe I have better things to do than that eh? :lol:
(Apparently not, since I am here typing this. ;) )




  
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Apr 30, 2012 16:21 |  #15

nicksan wrote in post #14355266 (external link)
Me? All the time. Because I'm always right. But that's besides the point. :lol:;)

That's like me losing a contract to a $500 wedding photographer and me actually going to that wedding to check his/her work, finding out that he/she was shooting with a Digital Rebel + Kit Lens + pop-up lens, somehow getting access to the proofs and finding out that they indeed suck, and then finding out that the photographer got sued and then following up on the story. Then come on here to describe it in all its gory details.

Or maybe I have better things to do than that eh? :lol:
(Apparently not, since I am here typing this. ;) )

I suggest you never stream your shoots live to the web then... ;)


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