Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Index  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Guest
New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear  •   • Reviews
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
Thread started 29 Apr 2012 (Sunday) 18:40
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

Difference of zoom between crop and full frame

 
J.Litton
Goldmember
Avatar
1,741 posts
Likes: 16
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Florida's Treasure Coast
     
Apr 29, 2012 18:40 |  #1

This may have been answered already but I didnt see it. Could someone help me understand how much of a difference there' is between say a 500mm lens on a 1Dmkiv, a 7D, and a 5dmkiii?

Thanks


7D MK II.17-40L.100-400L.500L
www.jlitton.com (external link)
www.facebook.com/jlitt​on.nature.photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)
FlyingPhotog
Cream of the "Prop"
Avatar
57,560 posts
Likes: 142
Joined May 2007
Location: Probably Chasing Aircraft
     
Apr 29, 2012 18:51 |  #2

It's 500mm on all three with the difference being successively tighter field of view from FF to APS-C.


Jay
Crosswind Images (external link)
Facebook Fan Page (external link)

"If you aren't getting extraordinary images from today's dSLRs, regardless of brand, it's not the camera!" - Bill Fortney, Nikon Corp.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Evan
Goldmember
Avatar
1,327 posts
Likes: 4
Joined Jun 2009
Location: Oregon
     
Apr 29, 2012 18:57 |  #3

^this..

wish there was a like button on these forums..


--
flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gjl711
According to the lazy TF, My flatulence rates
Avatar
55,306 posts
Likes: 2335
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
     
Apr 29, 2012 18:59 |  #4

500mm on 1d mark iv
500mm on 7d
500mm on 5d mark iii

Of the three the 7D will put the most pixels on target with a density of 54,000 pixels per each square mm.
The MkIV and the MkIII are real close with 30k and 26k pixels per sq/mm.


Not sure why, but call me JJ.
I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
.
::Flickr:: (external link)
::Gear::

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
ScatterCr
Senior Member
Avatar
384 posts
Joined May 2010
Location: Pacific Northwest
     
Apr 29, 2012 19:09 |  #5

I wasn't aware that the 500L was a zoom


Erik
Gear | flickr (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gjl711
According to the lazy TF, My flatulence rates
Avatar
55,306 posts
Likes: 2335
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
     
Apr 29, 2012 19:12 |  #6

ScatterCrSport wrote in post #14349901 (external link)
I wasn't aware that the 500L was a zoom

siggy 50-500 and 150-500.


Not sure why, but call me JJ.
I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
.
::Flickr:: (external link)
::Gear::

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
J.Litton
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
Avatar
1,741 posts
Likes: 16
Joined Jan 2010
Location: Florida's Treasure Coast
     
Apr 29, 2012 19:24 |  #7

Thanks for the responses. I just see so many people say to avoid full frame for wildlife and birding, but am trying to grasp why. If the full frame gives you better quality, but you have to crop more, how does it compare to if the camera in essence from what I understand does a crop for you in the crop sensor bodies?


7D MK II.17-40L.100-400L.500L
www.jlitton.com (external link)
www.facebook.com/jlitt​on.nature.photography (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
saintz
Senior Member
428 posts
Joined Mar 2012
     
Apr 29, 2012 19:30 |  #8

To be helpful instead of pedantic, multiply by the crop factor (1.3 or 1.6) to get the equivalent focal length that would create the same framing on a full frame sensor. So a 500 mm on a 7D will frame a scene similar to a 800 mm on a 5D.


Sony A6000 | 18-55 | 16-50 | 50 f1.8

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Ricardo222
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
16,067 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 189
Joined Mar 2010
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
     
Apr 29, 2012 19:43 |  #9

J.Litton wrote in post #14349959 (external link)
Thanks for the responses. I just see so many people say to avoid full frame for wildlife and birding, but am trying to grasp why. If the full frame gives you better quality, but you have to crop more, how does it compare to if the camera in essence from what I understand does a crop for you in the crop sensor bodies?

If ALL you want is close up pictures of distant objects then the advice you have been given may be of some use, but I really would not advise people to "avoid" full frame for shooting wildlife. There are dozens of threads that will tell you that this or that is bad, but in the end it all works if you press the button at the right time, in the right place!
Crop cameras give greater "reach" for any given focal length, and they may fit your needs perfectly, but only you can tell if the trade-offs are worth while.

While you make up your mind, checkout the best birding sites like BirdsAsArt. No-one there seems to be too pedantic about cameras, but there's good discussion on lenses and techniques. Good luck!


Growing old disgracefully!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sandpiper
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,171 posts
Gallery: 1 photo
Likes: 50
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Merseyside, England
     
Apr 29, 2012 19:57 as a reply to  @ saintz's post |  #10

For wildlife and birding, ignore the "crop factor" as such. The difference in field of view only makes a difference when using the total frame area of each camera.

With critters it is quite likely that you will not be close enough, most of the time, to fill the frame and so will need to crop anyway. The 500mm lens projects the same image circle on the sensor, regardless of the sensor size, so if you aren't filling the frame and only using a part of the sensors area, how much sensor there is outside the chosen composition makes no odds. Once you crop to the part with the bird in, the image will cover the same amount of sensor real estate regardless, so there is no "crop factor".

There is one big difference however, in that crop factor cameras have more densely packed pixels than contemporary FF cameras. This means that although the image covers the same amount of the sensor, the crop body has more pixels on that same area, and it is that which gives you a larger, higher resolution image - by placing more "pixels on target".

So, saying the 500 becomes an 800mm on a 1.6x crop is pointless (as well as being wrong factually). If you have to crop in further to remove excess wasted space in the frame, the crop factor increases accordingly, so you could end up with a 3x crop for example, giving an equivalent field of view to a 1500mm on a full 24x36 framed image. However, that cropped image could as easily be taken from a FF camera as a 1.6x crop camera, it would still be a 1500mm equivalent.

So, forget "crop factor", and "equivalent focal lengths", what counts is pixel density and it is that which gives you additional "reach". How much, depends on the camera you have, something like a 7D will provide more reach than a camera with fewer megapixels.

As for a comparison between the bodies you mentioned, I am sure someone will do the math and work it out based on the pixel pitch of each sensor.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
xarqi
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
10,435 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Oct 2005
Location: Aotearoa/New Zealand
     
Apr 29, 2012 21:45 |  #11

Ricardo222 wrote in post #14350037 (external link)
Crop cameras give greater "reach" for any given focal length...

... because, purely by coincidence, the current crop camera offerings have higher pixel density than the current full frame camera offerings. Sensor size itself, or crop factor, if you prefer, has no bearing on the issue at all.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Ricardo222
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
16,067 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 189
Joined Mar 2010
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
     
Apr 29, 2012 22:42 |  #12

xarqi wrote in post #14350647 (external link)
... because, purely by coincidence, the current crop camera offerings have higher pixel density than the current full frame camera offerings. Sensor size itself, or crop factor, if you prefer, has no bearing on the issue at all.

Yes of course...and I should have used the qualifier "apparent" in that sentence.Because no matter which way you slice it, looking through the viewfinder of a crop sensor camera any given FL appears longer, simply because you are not seeing as much of the subject as on FF. And this is what sticks in people's minds, no matter what math or logic you throw at them.


Growing old disgracefully!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gjl711
According to the lazy TF, My flatulence rates
Avatar
55,306 posts
Likes: 2335
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
     
Apr 29, 2012 22:59 |  #13

I took these a couple days ago. The first is taken with the 7D, 100-400, very little post. The second is taken from the same location with the 5DMkII and 100-400. These are not cropped just the full frame re-sized.

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8150/6980895186_39a357bf38_b.jpg

IMAGE: http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8166/7126981037_31b70a5729_b.jpg

Not sure why, but call me JJ.
I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
.
::Flickr:: (external link)
::Gear::

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
gjl711
According to the lazy TF, My flatulence rates
Avatar
55,306 posts
Likes: 2335
Joined Aug 2006
Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
     
Apr 29, 2012 23:06 |  #14

And these are the 100% crops.

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7207/7127083737_b2339e897d_b.jpg

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7231/6980996858_eab4bbb06b_b.jpg

Not sure why, but call me JJ.
I used to hate math but then I realised decimals have a point.
.
::Flickr:: (external link)
::Gear::

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
MakisM1
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,574 posts
Gallery: 22 photos
Likes: 348
Joined Dec 2011
Location: Houston
     
Apr 29, 2012 23:10 |  #15

In the first one I thought 'He bit the bullet'...


Gerry
Canon 5D MkIII/Canon 60D/Canon EF-S 18-200/Canon EF 24-70L USM II/Canon EF 70-200L 2.8 USM II/Canon EF 50 f1.8 II/Σ 8-16/ 430 EXII
OS: Linux Ubuntu/PostProcessing: Darktable/Image Processing: GIMP

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links
(this ad will go away when you log in as a registered member)

4,813 views & 0 likes for this thread
Difference of zoom between crop and full frame
FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Index   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.1forum software
version 2.1 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is armychemical
549 guests, 208 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.