this is not another "which camera is best for me"

I have an xti with the lens listed in my sig below.
I shoot basic family stuff and lots of travel photos. I have almost quit shooting indoors because of the horrible noise at anything above 400ISO. By 800 it's silly and with the current hack that unlocks 3000ISO it's simply to get a shot I would otherwise have to do without. IQ suffers horribly.

I use flash when I think of it but that (for me is not foolproof and not the look I want usually) .
For Landscapes and city scenes/HDR I love the xti for its size and with my lenses I am very happy with the results. But anything indoors I usually grab my p&s and avoid the frustration.

So I am considering a move to either a 60d or a 7d. Price of the 60d and considerably smaller size appeal. Also having magic lantern as an option is appealing too. The price and size of the 7d are deterrents since we tend to walk/hike many hours a day for many days when we travel. Thus my love for the weight of the xti. The 9 fps appeal to me but I bet the 5+ of the 60d will be fine too.


My question(finally) is will I notice a significant improvement in IQ and noise between the xti and either of these cameras? I like the camera and I feel like I am right at its limits in my hands. I get some really good images but its because I feel like I know the limits of the camera and I work just within them.


Reading this thread I am encouraged but even the examples of the bad shots look better than my high ISO shots.

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1079217

Eager to get home and try these techniques but not sure if I can squeeze much more out.

I'm not wanting a new body to make me a better photographer but I wonder if it will decrease my work to get the pics I am.

Before I drop the cash on a new body, I was just wanting some feedback on primarily the noise and IQ issues.

Thanks

Shawn

reading your post carefully, you obviously want the 60d. that's what you should get. " significant improvement" is one of those subjective things, I doubt the change you're proposing would be what I consider "significant", but it might be for you. Rent or buy up a 60D from somewhere that is good with returns and try it out and see for yourself if the difference is what you're looking for.

I actually really like the 7D and keeping CF cards is appealing but it did seem the 60D won in my brief argument. I went and looked at both at BB the other day. I was impressed by how heavy the 7D was. That is really my only negative. Is the noise not significantly better handled in the newer models? That would be my main reason honestly.

Docthomas wrote in post #14359809
I use flash when I think of it but that (for me is not foolproof and not the look I want usually) .
For Landscapes and city scenes/HDR I love the xti for its size and with my lenses I am very happy with the results. But anything indoors I usually grab my p&s and avoid the frustration.

This is interesting. Having a tiltable flash and/or off camera flash is one of the big reasons why I have a DSLR over a P&S. In indoor environments, unless the ceiling is way too high like 20 feet up, I find that bouncing flash adds punch to my subjects, filling in the areas under their facial features. I find myself using flash even when it's not needed to get a high enough shutter speed. I also carry a pack of Rosco gels to color correct the flash so it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb.

http://www.bhphotovide​o.com …_55_Piece_Filte​r_Kit.html
(Minus the flash)

In my experience, the XTi is very capable of generating decent images with flash and these skills will come in handy no matter what kind of camera you decide to purchase next. What have you been trying to do to improve your flash photography?

Docthomas wrote in post #14359809
My question(finally) is will I notice a significant improvement in IQ and noise between the xti and either of these cameras? I like the camera and I feel like I am right at its limits in my hands. I get some really good images but its because I feel like I know the limits of the camera and I work just within them.

In a nutshell, noise yes, but IQ depends on the skills of the photographer.

Here's a link to Neil's website showing how to use just bounce flash to obtain some really great results:
http://neilvn.com …/1-natural-looking-flash/

http://neilvn.com …s/flash-photography-tips/

Capeachy wrote in post #14360111
This is interesting.
In my experience, the XTi is very capable of generating decent images with flash and these skills will come in handy no matter what kind of camera you decide to purchase next. What have you been trying to do to improve your flash photography

I agree it is quite capable but I often feel very limited by the ISO even while traveling. Often flashes are not allowed nor are tripods so cranking the ISO is often my quick fix lacking some stable surface to prop up on.

I use flash whenever I can but my keeper rate up until recently has been low. I am getting better but in a must get the photo situation I don't use flash.

Improvement is a little bit of everything...

Camera sensor, obviously there has been some progress...

Technique, read the thread by TeamSpeed on the High ISO, you can get quite a bit of improvement.

PostProcessing, it is key to produce acceptable images at high ISO.

If you can get all three, you will see significant improvement, 2 out of the three and will be OK, one out of the three will leave you wondering, what's the big deal.

Good info. I will look into the links on high ISO shooting and see what I can manage.

The 60D has done well for me in low light using fast prime lenses.

You may want to look into a 5Dc for about the same money as he 60D, though.

You already have some good lenses for a 5D, which costs roughly the same as a 60D. The 5D plus the 50 1.8 (or upgrade to a 50 1.4 for significantly better low light and AF) will work well.

Also, a better flash with a diffuser of some sort will help. The on-camera flash is very limiting.

MakisM1 wrote in post #14360159
Improvement is a little bit of everything...

Camera sensor, obviously there has been some progress...

Technique, read the thread by TeamSpeed on the High ISO, you can get quite a bit of improvement.

PostProcessing, it is key to produce acceptable images at high ISO.

If you can get all three, you will see significant improvement, 2 out of the three and will be OK, one out of the three will leave you wondering, what's the big deal.

Lots of truth in this. I took some shots at 3200 and 6400 in a dimly lit chapel last weekend. They weren't perfect, but with some PP work they came out ok for something like a family album. Probably not something you would want to blow up to 20x16 or anything, though.

Theres pretty much an even split on the xTi hack thread about the high ISO images. Many say they're happy with them. Many not so much.

Some examples here:
https://photography-on-the.net …hread.php?t=742​806&page=2

I think lighting (not using the built-in flash) and exposure has a lot of effect on how good high ISO shots turn out.

WaltA wrote in post #14361150
I think lighting (not using the built-in flash) and exposure has a lot of effect on how good high ISO shots turn out.

So as long as I'm well lit enough to choose a fast shutter speed and minimize the need for ISO >400 it works great!

I'm kidding of course but I am unable to get anything approaching what is on those examples. Reading some of the comments it seems to be pretty variable and almost like some xti bodies are capable of utilizing the hack well and others just output garbage. I've played extensively with lighting and tripods and flash but my high ISO pics look awful on the xti . I'm going home to try the technique listed above regarding adjusting EV.

Considered 5Dc but would like to gain some fps if I do get a new body.

Docthomas wrote in post #14361245
....... Reading some of the comments it seems to be pretty variable and almost like some xti bodies are capable of utilizing the hack well and others just output garbage.

I think its more about how some people are better at exposures in low light conditions. And some post processing seems to be required to get the best out of these shots as well.

I'm not an expert in this territory - I struggle with flash and low light / flourescent light conditions. Just haven't spent enough time in those situations to spend time on it.

Docthomas wrote in post #14360155
I agree it is quite capable but I often feel very limited by the ISO even while traveling. Often flashes are not allowed nor are tripods so cranking the ISO is often my quick fix lacking some stable surface to prop up on.

I moved from an XSi to a 60D. The difference in handling the noise is considerable. It could mean different things to different people, but in quantitative terms it means that with the old camera using ISO 1600 produced a lot of noise. The new 60D (and my wife's T2i) can be safely used at ISO 3200, and still getting decent images even before post processing.