Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
Thread started 03 May 2012 (Thursday) 03:54
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

What should we expect, if we do this for a business?

 
JeremyKPhoto
Goldmember
1,634 posts
Likes: 46
Joined Apr 2012
     
May 03, 2012 03:54 |  #1

My wife and I are spending alot of time practicing with taking photos and are considering investing more money into more/better equipment and trying to do a very small thing on the side doing portraits for people.

What would we need to be expecting?
If anyone has some time to go through and tell me what kind of things I would need to have people sign that would help alot.

As far as getting a business license do we need anything special?
We would not be doing weddings or anything like that, would we need some sort of insurance?

So for example lets say someone contacts us and they say that they would like some portraits taken at some park. What would be the first thing we do after discussing pricing and location? Have them sign a paper agreeing to pay a certain amount under the condition that they are satisfied with the images? Then I keep seeing people mentioning a model release form. When would I need that?

We are both very new to the idea of this and do not want to end up going into something blindly and not know what we need to be doing. If anyone has some time to help give a good explanation of how these things work I would very much appreciate it.

One final question. Lets say we had our business license and everything already. I have read about people going to events and taking photos of people (which they wanted) and then giving them a business card so that they can see the pictures and decide if they wanted to buy them. Here where we live they do alot of events in the parks so I am assuming we would need to contact the people running these events to get permission for this? Would the people we are taking pictures of need to sign anything?


5D Mark III / 70-200 2.8L IS II / 24-105L / 50 1.8 stm / Tamron 70-300 VC / Sigma 85mm 1.4 Art

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
brett201
Member
85 posts
Joined Feb 2012
     
May 03, 2012 08:15 |  #2

Ratjack wrote in post #14371323 (external link)
snip...
Then I keep seeing people mentioning a model release form. When would I need that?

...snip

There is a whole thread made into a sticky titled "When do I need a release". Shall I go read it for you and report back?




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
CosmoKid
Goldmember
Avatar
4,235 posts
Likes: 14
Joined May 2009
Location: NJ
     
May 03, 2012 08:23 |  #3

brett201 wrote in post #14371950 (external link)
There is a whole thread made into a sticky titled "When do I need a release". Shall I go read it for you and report back?

Maybe he missed it? There's a ton of stickies on here and not everyone easily finds what they are looking for or even thinks there may be one. Should he have searched? Maybe. Should you have been as snotty as you were? Probably not.


Joe- 2 bodies, L 2.8 zoom trilogy and a couple of primes
iRocktheShot.com (external link) - Portfolio (external link)

Gear/Feedback
Facebook "Fan" Page (external link) -

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tlzimmerman
Senior Member
258 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Jan 2012
Location: Hays, KS
     
May 03, 2012 08:40 as a reply to  @ brett201's post |  #4

Business license requirements vary by location. One thing you absolutely will need to do is register with the state for sales tax, and pay it accordingly. In KS, I even have to pay sales tax on session fees, as they are said to produce "tangible product". Your state may vary. The most important thing to do is know the rules, and follow them. Claim all your income on income tax as well.

Save yourself alot of headache from the get go and spend some time and money and draft a formal contract. Included in the contract should be every single viable outcome to the photo session. All the expectations, everything that is included and what is not included, and include a model release. You need a model release anytime you intend to use your photos for commercial use, and using the photos for basically anything in conjunction to your business is commercial use. A lawyer should be part of this process.

Do you need insurance.....absolute​ly. Keep in mind that while you are doing these photo sessions, its reasonable to think that you will be directing people. If you are in a park, and tell someone to sit down on a completely reasonable looking bench, it breaks, and they break their arm. Who is liable? You told them to sit there, are you liable? Nobody really knows the answer, thats for the courts to decide if someone wants to sue, but you bet your butt that when that day comes, and I said when not if, you want insurance to take that fight up for you and not yourself, because it can bury you. I run multiple light setups alot, if my light stands fall and crack someone on the head (and while unlikely, it could happen) that is my fault, and my insurance would cover that.

Your final question, it depends on if you are in a public place. If you are on public property, then you have the right to take and sell any photographs you want with no model release. If at an event on private property open to the public, I think the rules would be the same (someone can clarify here if you are wrong). If you are at a private event (aka need a ticket for admission) then the event organizer must give you permissions to shoot. What you need a release for is to then put those shots on your website to promote your business, because that is commercial use. Not trying to be a downer, but if you are looking to make any real meaningful income from photography, I don't think shooting events and handing out cards is normally a very profitable venture.

You asked what to expect, and I can give you an idea. Photography and portrait photography in particular is an extremely competitive venue to get into. There are thousands of people, just like you, sitting in there houses right now at this very moment thinking about the same thing you are, as well as a horde of established pro's out there who are very good at what they do, and an even bigger horde of people out there doing it who have little to know experience and maybe limited camera skills, who may or may not be following the rules and working on a level field. Ask this of yourself and your photos....what is special about them. What sets you apart from the people you will be competing with. What do you do better? If you struggle coming up with an answer......your business will struggle. Its very VERY easy to work for below minimum wage in this business when you add up your time, your expenses. In my opinion, you either need to find your cost of doing business and set up things so you make good money, or keep it as a hobby. I wouldn't want to work this hard for minimum wage or less, but that decision is ultimately up to the people workign in the business.

Good luck! If you make it work, its a fun, fast paced, and exciting job, but its hard!


5d Mk III - 5d Mk II - 550d - 24-70L - 70-200L IS II - 24-105 F4 L - 85 1.8 - 50 1.4 - 60 Macro - 15 Fisheye

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sspellman
Goldmember
Avatar
1,731 posts
Likes: 30
Joined Dec 2006
Location: Detroit, Michigan
     
May 03, 2012 09:02 |  #5

Ratjack-

1) Form an LLC and get insurance to minimize risk to your other assets. You will need to consult a lawyer and accountant. If you sell any physical products/prints you will almost always need a state sales tax license.
2) You will need a formal contract with deposit for portrait sessions. Model releases are required by most state privacy laws to confirm you can use the subjects image for advertising and marketing.
3) Some event photographers are invited to events and sell prints to customers for profit, and assume the business risk themselves. I shoot many events, but only when the event organizers pays me completely up front.
4) Good business skills are more important than photography skills to make money. Often it is better to invest in marketing than equipment. You need to know how to identify, market, and sell to your customers.
5) Photography is a popular side business. You will need to do much research on your market to assess how viable is your business plan.

As a very wise friend once said "It's easy to make a small fortune in Photography. Just start with a large fortune."

-Scott


ScottSpellmanMedia.com [photography]

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
brett201
Member
85 posts
Joined Feb 2012
     
May 03, 2012 09:40 |  #6

CosmoKid wrote in post #14371983 (external link)
Maybe he missed it? There's a ton of stickies on here and not everyone easily finds what they are looking for or even thinks there may be one. Should he have searched? Maybe. Should you have been as snotty as you were? Probably not.

perhaps you are right. thanks for calling me out on it. I know I've wanted to call out a few adults here for their responses to youngsters posting here.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
TooManyShots
Cream of the Crop
10,203 posts
Likes: 532
Joined Jan 2008
Location: NYC
     
May 03, 2012 10:19 |  #7
bannedPermanent ban

Well, the business technical side of things are easy to deal with. Just file some paper works and paying the fees. You are done. The question is that do you have a market for your works. Are you already shooting for friends and hoping they would spread the words? Or do you expect to put ads on CL and Facebook and hoping someone would just hire you?


One Imaging Photography (external link) and my Flickr (external link)
Facebook (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
JacobPhoto
Goldmember
1,434 posts
Likes: 39
Joined Jun 2005
Location: La Verne, Cali
     
May 03, 2012 12:26 |  #8

Let me ask you a few questions first...

- Are you currently making any income from photography?
- Do you have clients approaching you that you do not feel comfortable taking on due to your camera equipment or photo abilities?
- Do you have a business direction in mind that appears to be untapped in your region?

Until you have steady clients lined up, I don't think it's worth jumping through the hoops of an LLC and business license. I've been operating my photo business as a sole proprietorship for several years and never had problems. Then again, I'm not taking on clients like Jane and John who want photos of their child at the park...


~ Canon 7d / 5D ~ Novatron strobe setup + Vagabond
~ Some L glass, some flashes, the usual

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
JeremyKPhoto
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
1,634 posts
Likes: 46
Joined Apr 2012
     
May 03, 2012 16:44 |  #9

Thank you for the responses guys! I did search and read the sticky but I got a little confused and just wanted more information to make sure I had everything clear. I just do not feel that I should think that I know exactly how everything is if I am still confused after the sticky.


5D Mark III / 70-200 2.8L IS II / 24-105L / 50 1.8 stm / Tamron 70-300 VC / Sigma 85mm 1.4 Art

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
JeremyKPhoto
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
1,634 posts
Likes: 46
Joined Apr 2012
     
May 03, 2012 16:54 |  #10

JacobPhoto wrote in post #14373427 (external link)
Let me ask you a few questions first...

- Are you currently making any income from photography?
- Do you have clients approaching you that you do not feel comfortable taking on due to your camera equipment or photo abilities?
- Do you have a business direction in mind that appears to be untapped in your region?

Until you have steady clients lined up, I don't think it's worth jumping through the hoops of an LLC and business license. I've been operating my photo business as a sole proprietorship for several years and never had problems. Then again, I'm not taking on clients like Jane and John who want photos of their child at the park...

1. I am not making any income from this as of now.
2. I have no clients since right now its just a hobby
3. I thought I may have... but after going on craigslist and searching there are so many "photographers" here. Its sad too because I can tell even though they are advertising for a business they do not have any proper licensing. Their photos even looked like they cut the person out and pasted them onto a fake background....

Well this all seems like ALOT of work to get into. So we are going to just keep practicing and improving on doing editing until we feel we might be ready to do all this. We would not be planning on making a ton of money, it just seemed like a decent way to earn some extra cash on the side.

brett201 wrote in post #14371950 (external link)
There is a whole thread made into a sticky titled "When do I need a release". Shall I go read it for you and report back?

Well, I can easily say you are the first rude person I have met on this forum. I came here for help on making sure I understood things before I jumped into something serious that has possible legal repercussions. I think your comment would have come across a lot better/nicer if you would have said something like "there is a sticky you can read on this, It can be found at (link)" then at least you would be making an attempt to help me (i have read it already as well btw, just wanted more clarification).


5D Mark III / 70-200 2.8L IS II / 24-105L / 50 1.8 stm / Tamron 70-300 VC / Sigma 85mm 1.4 Art

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mark1
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,725 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Feb 2008
Location: Maryland
     
May 03, 2012 17:03 |  #11

#1 is realize and accept the 80-20 rule. 80% of what you will be doing is running a business, not being a photographer. Some people LOVE this part, some avoid it at all costs. Wether it is marketing, billing, advertising, coraspondence, etc...etc... this will be your main focus. The 20% of your time shooting will be your payoff.

And this seems to grow proportanitly The more you shoot the more office work you have. The more office work you do the more shooting you will do. Slack on one side the other feels it as well. But the ratio seems to stay about 80-20.


www.darkslisemag.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
airfrogusmc
I'm a chimper. There I said it...
37,962 posts
Gallery: 179 photos
Best ofs: 6
Likes: 13407
Joined May 2007
Location: Oak Park, Illinois
     
May 03, 2012 17:15 |  #12

If you are not good at the biz get help. THe problem is to many photographers try to do it all and because no one is good at everyhthing find people that are great in the areas that you lack. Every really successful photographer I know has first a very good accountant. I do. Second if you are doing commercial work and just starting find a good rep. The will do the marketing and putting you in touch with the right clients. Its what they do. Then if you have a studio and have employees get a manager to run that.

Most chefs are great at being chefs and usually if they are not good att the biz they hire people to manage their restaurants or partner with someone. That gives then the time and the energy to do what they love. Just like if you love the photography end of it you can then do what you love and the work will show it.

I've seen'm come and go over the years and the ones that go are the ones that try and do everything and try and be everything to everybody.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
scorpio_e
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,402 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 264
Joined Aug 2007
Location: Pa
     
May 03, 2012 17:29 |  #13

First of all you can practice with your friends and family for free. You could probably get some referrals from them.
Business insurance $500 a year
Accountant $600 a year
Then the expense of the gear and the upkeep of the gear. All of the expenses add up quickly.

Good luck and there is a lot of completion out there *L*


You will find most people are helpful here.


www.steelcityphotograp​hy.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
JeremyKPhoto
THREAD ­ STARTER
Goldmember
1,634 posts
Likes: 46
Joined Apr 2012
     
May 03, 2012 17:32 |  #14

scorpio_e wrote in post #14375087 (external link)
First of all you can practice with your friends and family for free. You could probably get some referrals from them.
Business insurance $500 a year
Accountant $600 a year
Then the expense of the gear and the upkeep of the gear. All of the expenses add up quickly.

Good luck and there is a lot of completion out there *L*


You will find most people are helpful here.

Ya, practice is one thing I feel there is never enough off. I feel like I keep improving since I am easily able to learn from my mistakes. My brother in law is really young is is graduating high school in July. I am heading over to western Washington to take graduation photos of him for my in laws. He also has friends that I am sure will want pictures so I will get some more practice with that as well.

I have found people on this forum to be very kind and helpful. Really glad I joined this forum, I was able to make much more informed decisions due to the input of other members here.


5D Mark III / 70-200 2.8L IS II / 24-105L / 50 1.8 stm / Tamron 70-300 VC / Sigma 85mm 1.4 Art

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Hot ­ Bob
Goldmember
1,045 posts
Gallery: 2 photos
Likes: 101
Joined Jul 2009
Location: Sanger, Texas
     
May 03, 2012 17:46 as a reply to  @ JeremyKPhoto's post |  #15

I have been seriously practicing for about 25 years. Technically, I'm probably as good as anyone. Creatively, I'm pretty decent. My friends and family have told me for years that I should be a pro. If I could just shoot what I want and not worry about customers, selling, or competition, I would. Until that time, I'm just practicing.

Bob


Gear List

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

4,002 views & 0 likes for this thread, 15 members have posted to it.
What should we expect, if we do this for a business?
FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos The Business of Photography 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is ealarcon
1225 guests, 162 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.