(1D Series Owners) How Many of You...

1D, 1DmkII, 1DmkIII, and 1DmkIV owners use a 200mm, or 300mm instead of a 400mm or a 500mm (etc.) with a 1.4 or a 2X extender to shoot fast action, birds, cars, sports, etc?

The reason I ask is, I am about to get a 1DmkIV, and I have a 100-400mm L IS zoom that I have had for around 4 years, and I wonder if I couldn't get a more sharp shot if I used something other than the 100-400mm. I am not against getting a 500mm of some kind, but to be honest, I am not that familiar with those, and some are out of my price range, period, a more suitable price would get me into one though. I love my 100-400mm, but from what I understand even with a 1D series camera, I will have trouble with the 5.6 aperture getting me the shots I need to get in birds in flight. (BIF)

I use the Canon T2i, the Canon 100-400mm L IS as of now... I want to be able to use an extender when I upgrade.
I have the Kenko1.4X Teleplus Pro 300 and the Kenko C-AF 2X Teleplus MC4 extenders now, I am not opposed to getting a Canon extender if need be... (The 2X extender is only good for manual focusing for the camera I have now)

I can't really use ANY of the extenders I have now because they slow it down and make it unusable for BIF, I can however use it for static distance shots, with a loss of quality, but I still am able to get that shot if needed...

So what I am really asking is, I need a tried and true combination, are there any of you that actually use an extender, and a 1D series that are able to get keepers in BIF shots?
I knew a professional photographer that had a 1DmkIII that used a Canon 1.4 extender with I believe, a Canon 500mm, (I don't know which) and he takes perfect BIF shots, but I don't really read that here on this site for some reason. (He also had money to spend, I don't have his money)

Please help me out if you can, I am about to be needing to make the decision soon of the camera, extender(?), and the lens.
I may have to get a Canon 400mm PRIME lens, that might get me to a place that I wouldn't need the extender so much, if at all, that would be fine, but I see so many lenses out there to choose from, and I am confused as to which are what would be best for me.

The lenses that I know would prevent me from needing an extender are really out of my price range, I could, but I don't want to spend $5,000. to $12,000. that I would need to. (I know, just like ALL of us!)

Hopefully someone could come up with a little less expensive route for me to take, I'm all ears. I might have high aspirations, but I am still not in the money...

Thank you, I appreciate any and all help that you can give.

Randy

I don't know what you were shooting with before, but i was shooting with a 5D II with my 100-400mm IS and when i decided to try out my 1D II and 100-400mm paired with my 1.4x III extender i was blown away by the results. I haven't used the setup that much, but with the 1D II + 1.4x III (no tape trick) and 100-400mm i got some great shots, even some BIF. You are limited to the center focus point but it does great.

Here is a recent BIF with 1D, 1.4x III and 100-400mm. I know it's a big bird but i am a BIF newbie. the 1D works much better than the 1D with that setup

IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com/​photos/ehambrick/71559​90996/

I used the 100-400 F/4-5.6 on a 50D, and it was a good sharp lens at 400mm
Used the same lens on two of my 1DS MkII bodies, it was soft toward 400mm on both of them.
Used the same lens, unaltered in anyway on my 1D MkIII - pin sharp at 400mm

I actually borrowed another lens in preparation of sending the 100-400 in to be checked out, but cancelled that now as it's literally perfect.

Get the body first, test out the lens, and then see it it's not as sharp as you desire.

I have the T2i right now, along with the 100-400mm L IS.

I assume you have the Canon 1.4 III extender?

The reason I went with the Kenko 1.4 extender (instead of Canon's) is that you don't have the tape the pins, it allows for focus without that, although, it is SLOW. (Too slow to use as a BIF lens)

From what I understand, any lens that is not f/4 or below will make it hard to focus with an extender, that is why I am asking. It also needs to be a 1D Series too.
I'm evidently having a hard time getting this into my little noggin...

Thanks for the answer though, I really appreciate it.

Randy

angryman wrote in post #14424778
I used the 100-400 F/4-5.6 on a 50D, and it was a good sharp lens at 400mm
Used the same lens on two of my 1DS MkII bodies, it was soft toward 400mm on both of them.
Used the same lens, unaltered in anyway on my 1D MkIII - pin sharp at 400mm

I actually borrowed another lens in preparation of sending the 100-400 in to be checked out, but cancelled that now as it's literally perfect.

Get the body first, test out the lens, and then see it it's not as sharp as you desire.

Thanks for the reply, but really, what I am getting at is, I want to be using an extender, or at least get more reach, I'm not talking about 'just the sharpness' of a lens.
My 100-400mm L IS is pretty sharp, and I realize too that when I get the 1DmkIV I might have a slight problem with sharp, but I will tackle that when I come to it, that can be adjusted, what I need to know can't.

So my question is still, is there a way that I can use any extender along with my (soon-to-be) 1DmkIV? (I sometimes have a hard time making myself clear)

Thank you!

Randy

Maybe this will help out...

Since the 1D series are 1.3 crops...
Maybe I can use a 300mm L IS lens along with an 1.4 extender to get a 420mm reach? (This is not really enough, just an example, but I'd still like to know if anyone's doing this)
Or... A 300mm L IS along with a 2X extender... (600mm reach)

Maybe a 4.00mm L IS along with a 1.4 extender? (560mm reach)
Maybe a 4.00mm L IS along with a 2-X extender? (800mm reach)

Etc., etc.

It must be good glass, and of course, I want as much reach as I can get.

Like I mentioned already, I am semi-clueless on what lenses that are not only available, but accessible, and also work with the set-up I need.

Thank you!

Randy

recrisp wrote in post #14424874
Maybe this will help out...

Since the 1D series are 1.3 crops...
Maybe I can use a 300mm L IS lens along with an 1.4 extender to get a 420mm reach? (This is not really enough, just an example, but I'd still like to know if anyone's doing this)
Or... A 300mm L IS along with a 2X extender... (600mm reach)

Maybe a 4.00mm L IS along with a 1.4 extender? (560mm reach)
Maybe a 4.00mm L IS along with a 2-X extender? (800mm reach)

Etc., etc.

It must be good glass, and of course, I want as much reach as I can get.

Like I mentioned already, I am semi-clueless on what lenses that are not only available, but accessible, and also work with the set-up I need.

Thank you!

Randy

You could easily use your extender with those lenses but from what you've said, they are all out of your budget. I guess the big question is, how much do you want to spend? Unfortunately, if you're trying to get off "cheap", you've already found about the best option with your 100-400. Just about anything else that's going to provide significantly more reach is going to start costing a lot of money. Why not try your 1.4 extender on your 100-400 and see how that works out for you. It should work much better on a 1 series body (you'll still have autofocus)

I dont get it...you've got the 400 and a 1.4x and a 2x converter, why buy a 300mm?

You suggest the 5.6 aperture is no good for shooting birds, but adding teleconverters will make you lose stops.

Buying the Canon EF 300mm f/4.0 L IS USM and adding a 1.4x converter to it, will make it a 420mm f/5.6 (which is virtually what you have already in the 100-400mm)

adding the 2x will most likely eliminate the AF ability, again, not am ideal outcome.

I'll echo my above comments...get the camera, do some shooting, then decide what you need. You might be surprised.

jra wrote in post #14425135
You could easily use your extender with those lenses but from what you've said, they are all out of your budget. I guess the big question is, how much do you want to spend? Unfortunately, if you're trying to get off "cheap", you've already found about the best option with your 100-400. Just about anything else that's going to provide significantly more reach is going to start costing a lot of money. Why not try your 1.4 extender on your 100-400 and see how that works out for you. It should work much better on a 1 series body (you'll still have autofocus)

This is what i was saying and that is why i posted a 1.4x III and 1D II on the 100-400mm. The only other option at a decent price i have found is the 300mm f4. You basically need an f4 to get your 2x to autofocus, so the cheapest longest f4 is the 300mm. You could do the 200mm f2.8 or f2 but your 100-400mm would be better off than a 200mm f2.8 and 2x extender. Honestly the 1.4x + 1D + 100-400mm is a good option, you should try it out. I used my 5D + 1.4x III + 100-400mm and the tape trick and on sunny days it would focus fast, but when i put it on the 1D it is a HUGE difference in auto focus speed. Make sure when your using extenders you are also using the right focus distance on the lens, if you have it on the far setting and are trying to focus on something close, it may not be able to find it. I love the 100-400mm + 1.4x III on my 1D, i have only used it for a few weeks but i am getting really great shots that i just couldn't have got with my 5D's slow autofocusing with the combo.

Thank you for the answer.

I would be able to 'maybe' go for the more expensive ones, not all the way, but closer anyway. heheh
What I want to know is, which lens is good with an extender?
I mean, there are 5.6 400mm's, do they work with an extender? It's when you get a lens that is 2.8 or so, that is what I am trying to avoid, I kind'a have the money right now, but I really don't want to have to spend $13,000. for all of this, my wife is being pretty nice as it is, allowing me to buy stuff when I am not making money at this.

Anyway, I know I can get a 300mm or a 400mm that 'might be' good enough aperture-wise, and reach-wise, but who has one that knows, or, knows the math on it, I was never good at math.

Also, one of my plans was to sell my 100-400mm L IS, but I REALLY like it, and it wouldn't hurt to have it AND another lens that would kind'a better.

All I want is slightly more reach and sharpness, but since I can't really afford the best lens that will give me that, I need an extender I guess, so what lens would be best to use with it, one like a 400mm f/5.6? Or...?
Since I'm going from a 1.6 crop to a 1.3 crop, I am slightly going backward on the crop thing, but gaining on the detail, at least, I hope. heheh
I know I could wait and see what I get with my lens I have now, but I am wanting to know beforehand so I can be window shopping.

I hope this makes sense, I am trying to word it to where it does, maybe I'll get there eventually.

Thank you!

Randy

The most reach you can get with a 1 series, keeping centre point AF, and using affordable glass is the 300mm f/4 plus 2x extender so 600mm @ f/8. Factor in the 1.3x crop factor on the 1Div and that gives an effective focal length of 780mm.
On the downside the 2x extender does apparently reduce the IQ somewhat (so I've heard, I haven't tried it).
I use the 300mm f/4 and 400mm f/5.6 on my 1Div with the 1.4x extender and I'm quite happy with the image quality, AF, target acquisition etc. A couple of example shots below:

1Div with 300mm f/4 and 1.4x TC:

angryman wrote in post #14425182
I dont get it...you've got the 400 and a 1.4x and a 2x converter, why buy a 300mm?

You suggest the 5.6 aperture is no good for shooting birds, but adding teleconverters will make you lose stops.

Buying the Canon EF 300mm f/4.0 L IS USM and adding a 1.4x converter to it, will make it a 420mm f/5.6 (which is virtually what you have already in the 100-400mm)

adding the 2x will most likely eliminate the AF ability, again, not am ideal outcome.

I'll echo my above comments...get the camera, do some shooting, then decide what you need. You might be surprised.

That is not what I am meaning.
That may be the case, but I am only wanting to know a few things, I may be wrong, but I am only asking the question, and hopefully from some people that use the aforementioned.
I do realize that with what I have now there is no good result, hence my original questions.
With a 1D series, I have read that there is a way to go about what I am asking, I just don't seem to be asking the correct question.
With ANY OTHER camera, this will not be the case though, it will not maintain auto-focus, the 1D series have a way that communicates with the extenders because of the apertures to maintain it, that is what I am trying to convey.

I certainly will "do some shooting" with my 100-400mm after I get the camera, but I wanted to ask before I got it, I don't see the harm in that at all.

The 100-400mm I have now from what I have read will not be as sharp with an extender, so that is the reason I am wanting to know the answers, I am not trying to give anyone a headache. Maybe my questions have already been answered, but I would like for someone that definitely has the equipment that does what I need, and is it possible for me to achieve...
Someone that doesn't have the equipment, but knows the math on it, to where they can say 'for sure' that I either have to buy a really expensive lens, and forgo the extender, or it will work in my favor.

Randy

2slo wrote in post #14425237
The most reach you can get with a 1 series, keeping centre point AF, and using affordable glass is the 300mm f/4 plus 2x extender so 600mm @ f/8. Factor in the 1.3x crop factor on the 1Div and that gives an effective focal length of 780mm.
On the downside the 2x extender does apparently reduce the IQ somewhat (so I've heard, I haven't tried it).
I use the 300mm f/4 and 400mm f/5.6 on my 1Div with the 1.4x extender and I'm quite happy with the image quality, AF, target acquisition etc. A couple of example shots below:

1Div with 300mm f/4 and 1.4x TC:
1Div with 400mm f/5.6 and 1.4x TC:

THANK YOU!

See? That wasn't hard, was it? heheh
Seriously, I appreciate what you wrote, (as I have others that wrote also) and this is the kind of thing I was trying to make clear, so I really thank you for understanding what I meant.
(Nice shots too, by the way!)


The 400mm f/5.6 is something I can afford, but, from what I understand, it's not that good at BIF, I might be wrong, but that's is what I gathered.
I like the quality of the image you show, it's a static pose though, which is still something that I am really interested in, because I have a Kingfisher here that is 'just out of reach', and I want to show him.

I am pretty adept at using Center-Point on my lens now, so that part is not a problem, although I would REALLY like to be able to use the focus points that the 1DmkIV has, but I still need to be able to know what I can, and cannot do, so that is helpful stuff.

You didn't mention what extender(s) you use, Canon or...?

I sure might have to live with shooting ALL of my BIF shots without any extenders at all, if so, that is the way it is, but I was sure hoping that I could. I can use the extenders with what I have now, AND what I 'may' buy, like a 400mm prime, one that has an edge over my zoom.
My 100-400mm I should mention is not perfect, I can't shoot sharp at around the 400mm end, I go back to around 380mm or so to get it sharper though. That seems to work fairly well. That is ANOTHER reason I was hoping to get a prime that would allow me to get all I could from it.

Thank you 2Slo, that was helpful to me, and please, anyone else that thinks I am not appreciative of your help, I am, he just got closer to my problem, that's all, I mean no disrespect at all by singling him out.
Most all of the answers above have been helpful.

Randy

You're welcome, and I use the Canon 1.4x TC series 3.

Thank you for the extra answer.

Randy