Approve the Cookies
This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and our Privacy Policy.
OK
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Guest
Forums  •   • New posts  •   • RTAT  •   • 'Best of'  •   • Gallery  •   • Gear
Register to forums    Log in

 
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Discussion Sports 
Thread started 13 May 2012 (Sunday) 23:53
Search threadPrev/next
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

Burst mode...just how important...

 
jra
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,568 posts
Likes: 35
Joined Oct 2005
Location: Ohio
     
May 13, 2012 23:53 |  #1

I'm just curious, for you other sports photographers, how much do you rely on burst mode to capture your photos? I find that I rarely ever, virtually never, use burst mode with my photography. I've found that I achieve my best photos through careful observation and anticipation as opposed to burst shooting. So.....give me your opinions....burst mode for your best captures or careful anticipation with a single frame. There's no right or wrong....one method isn't necessarily better than the other....it's all personal preference :)




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Biffbradford
Goldmember
Avatar
2,784 posts
Gallery: 25 photos
Likes: 195
Joined Jul 2008
Location: Milwaukee
     
May 14, 2012 00:18 |  #2

1/10th of a second can make a HUGE difference in what your photo looks like. I never take less than 3 frames of any given 'shot'. Just a quick darting or glance of the athlete's eyes can make or break the shot. Chances are that by taking just one frame you're not going to catch that.


My pictures: John Wilke Photography (external link), Flikr (external link) , Facebook (external link), Fine Arts America (external link), Canon 1D MkII N, 1D MkIII, various Canon and Tokina lenses. :D

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
DC ­ Fan
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
5,881 posts
Gallery: 3 photos
Likes: 53
Joined Oct 2005
     
May 14, 2012 06:53 |  #3

jra wrote in post #14427622 (external link)
I'm just curious, for you other sports photographers, how much do you rely on burst mode to capture your photos? I find that I rarely ever, virtually never, use burst mode with my photography. I've found that I achieve my best photos through careful observation and anticipation as opposed to burst shooting. So.....give me your opinions....burst mode for your best captures or careful anticipation with a single frame. There's no right or wrong....one method isn't necessarily better than the other....it's all personal preference :)


Continuous framing is standard sports technique. Go to an actual event wheree there are several photographers and you can clearly hear the sound of rapidly clicking shutters when there's an important play or action sequence taking place.

IMAGE NOT FOUND
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


IMAGE NOT FOUND
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


IMAGE NOT FOUND
Byte size: ZERO | Content warning: NOT AN IMAGE


The sense of timing you develop is anticipation and reaction, to decide when the action is getting intense and it's time to hold down the shutter button and let the camera do the work. Sports action is so quick and unpredictable that if you wait for what seems like a good moment that the opportunity has passed and what you thought was going to be a good frame has been replaced by something else. Let the camera capture the action and go back and pick the best frames later on.

It's a variation of the old idea around reflex viewfinder cameras with flip-up mirror black out, that if you see a good image, that the camera hasn't caught it and that you never know what you've caught until you review the images later because all of the image capture happens when the viewfinder is blacked out and the mirror has flipped up so the shutter can open.



  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
angryman
Senior Member
Avatar
573 posts
Gallery: 4 photos
Likes: 12
Joined May 2011
Location: Riding my Kangaroo around Australia
     
May 14, 2012 07:04 as a reply to  @ DC Fan's post |  #4

I have to admit, I fell like I am being looked down on when people say "i carefully compose my shots and wait for the perfect moment". We all do, but sometimes burst mode is a must.

I mainly shoot motorsport, and the amount of accidents, rollovers, wheel lifts etc that I capture would not be possible without a rapid fire of frames. You might think you can pre-empt a wheel lift, or a roll over, but at the end of the day, 10 frames is better than 1 to capture that perfect moment.


Angryman Photography & Design (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Canonswhitelensesrule
Goldmember
Avatar
3,648 posts
Likes: 13
Joined Jan 2008
Location: Surrey, B.C.
     
May 14, 2012 13:54 |  #5

I love burst mode!

I don't use it in "hopes" of capturing the decisive moment, I use it because it's there, because it sounds so friggin' cool, and because, as angryman above just pointed out, 10 frames is better than 1 to capture the "perfect" moment.

Not only that, but if one waits to capture an "ideal" image by using single frame shooting only, they'll never know what they may have missed by NOT using burst mode. There are so many intricacies in an image, or in a "scene" that we do not notice when it's happening, that the camera would capture, but if we don't take an image of it, we'll never see it.

It could be something as simple as the grimace on an athlete's face as he/she is exuding all of their energy, or is getting hit, or knows that they've screwed up, whatever. It may the a reaction just AFTER the "peak action". Whatever.

My point is, while it is possible to get a great image shooting single frame only, if shooting in burst mode, that single great image could quite easily become SEVERAL great images.

Maybe in film days where you basically had to pay for each, and every frame, with digital, that isn't really a concern. Why limit your possibilities?

Again, I'm not talking about "sprayin' & prayin"...I don't think shooters from S.I., Getty, etc just "spray & pray", they know what they're doing, they press their shutters at the precise time, but I can almost guarantee you, that when it comes to photographing the action, their cameras are almost assuredly set to full burst mode. The higher/faster the better!


Photographers do it in 1/1,000th of a second...but the memory lasts forever! ;)
"It's only cheating if you get caught!" - Al Bundy
People who THINK they know it all really annoy those of us who DO!

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
primoz
POTN Sports Photographer of the year 2005
Avatar
2,532 posts
Likes: 2
Joined Dec 2004
Location: Anywhere where ski World cup makes its stop
     
May 14, 2012 14:20 |  #6

It's not so much about "rely on burst mode" then something else. Sometimes you get one chance and that's it. With this what I shoot most (alpine skiing World cup), you have one single chance and that's it. With downhill they come down the course once. With a bit of "luck" you get single gate, where you don't see them before, and you don't see them after. For example something like this:

IMAGE: http://www.photo.si/img/sport/spo_skiing_20101218nw_06878.jpg
Sure this can easily be done with single frame. But here's your problem, especially if you are really working, and you are not there just for fun. Normally people back in office require "a bit" more then one single photo of the winner. If you are working for newspaper, fine, one photo will do, since they most likely won't publish more then one anyway. But if you are working for agency, as I do, and this agency has few 100 different newspapers as clients, it's very much appreciated, if you send in more then 1 photo. And here 10fps come handy ;)
But as I wrote, it depends what you cover and for who you work. Sometimes single shoot is more then enough, and for something like basketball, football, hockey etc. when you have one hour time to produce 15 photos, single shoot is perfectly fine.

PhotoSI (external link) | Latest sport photos (external link)http://www.photo.si (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
IslandCrow
Senior Member
Avatar
589 posts
Likes: 1
Joined Oct 2008
Location: Rapid City, SD
     
May 14, 2012 14:28 |  #7

I think everyone's hit on it, but I'll type away anyway. You can certainly anticipate the perfect moment for a photograph, and every sports photographer should be able to do that, but there are many more minute details that are either not so predictable, or happen so quickly we simply can't push the shutter button quickly enough. I don't know precisely when someone is going to blink, or get fouled mid-air, arms flailing, anger in his eyes. Obviously, shooting away in burst hoping to get lucky is a rather poor technique, but since my bursts are almost never more than 3-4 shots (or about half a second in my case), It's still absolutely essential to anticipate the action, or I'm still going to miss it.




  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Biffbradford
Goldmember
Avatar
2,784 posts
Gallery: 25 photos
Likes: 195
Joined Jul 2008
Location: Milwaukee
     
May 14, 2012 14:48 |  #8

Another reason for shooting a series in sports :D :

IMAGE: http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc54/biffbradford/peloton%20star/HangTimeGif.gif

My pictures: John Wilke Photography (external link), Flikr (external link) , Facebook (external link), Fine Arts America (external link), Canon 1D MkII N, 1D MkIII, various Canon and Tokina lenses. :D

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
jser
Senior Member
Avatar
281 posts
Joined Oct 2011
Location: Devon
     
May 14, 2012 14:54 |  #9

I would never get these shots with just 3fps, you are talking BURST mode and not Buffer I assume.

The 60D canon outshoots the Nikon D300s even though the Nikons FPS rate is higher, BUT the Nikon can only shoot for 4 seconds before slowing to about 1fps the 60D just goes on and on and on so Buffer is as importans at fps

IMAGE NOT FOUND
HTTP response: 404 | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Byte size: ZERO | PHOTOBUCKET ERROR IMAGE

www.jrs-photography.co.uk (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tracknut
Goldmember
Avatar
1,740 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Jun 2005
Location: Folsom, California
     
May 14, 2012 15:19 |  #10

I suppose different sports have different speeds and changing action, that can make them easier or harder to anticipate. For my dog shoots, I could not live without burst mode; there's no way I can even see some of the action to predict when to push the shutter. Some examples:

IMAGE: http://www.pixf.com/dm_146165.jpg

IMAGE: http://www.pixf.com/dm_181141.jpg

In this case, the timing of the shot is well after the classic agility jump shot, and had I not been shooting a burst, all I would have is the very beginning of this fall.

IMAGE: http://www.pixf.com/dm_234042.jpg

Dave

Performance/sport dog photographer (external link)
Facebook (external link)
"Always available to shoot your dog"

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
FlyingPhotog
Cream of the "Prop"
Avatar
57,560 posts
Likes: 178
Joined May 2007
Location: Probably Chasing Aircraft
     
May 14, 2012 15:25 |  #11

It's not just limited to Sports...

Shots like these don't happen without burst. It's not so much the quantity of the frames themselves so much as it is the smaller "slices" of time at a given moment. I "know" when they're going to cross and I know where as well. Burst allows me to get THE moment.

IMAGE: http://crosswindimages.com/img/s9/v15/p691627260-4.jpg

IMAGE: http://crosswindimages.com/img/s10/v2/p161696809-4.jpg

And remember that with prop-driven aircraft, I can't use the fastest possible shutter speed or else I'd freeze the props! :shock:

Burst also helps when attempting really slow shutter pans. Five frames of this gave me one where I didn't over pan or under pan...
IMAGE: http://crosswindimages.com/img/s9/v15/p140414438-4.jpg

Jay
Crosswind Images (external link)
Facebook Fan Page (external link)

"If you aren't getting extraordinary images from today's dSLRs, regardless of brand, it's not the camera!" - Bill Fortney, Nikon Corp.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
tracknut
Goldmember
Avatar
1,740 posts
Likes: 3
Joined Jun 2005
Location: Folsom, California
     
May 14, 2012 18:12 |  #12

Those are really cool shots, Jay.
Dave


Performance/sport dog photographer (external link)
Facebook (external link)
"Always available to shoot your dog"

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
Mark1
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
6,725 posts
Likes: 7
Joined Feb 2008
Location: Maryland
     
May 14, 2012 19:06 |  #13

For me it is more in the wording... I never "rely" on burst mode. But every now and then I do "make use of" burst. It is just another tool. Use it or dont, There is no right or wrong.


www.darkslisemag.com (external link)

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
snyderman
Cream of the Crop
Avatar
7,084 posts
Likes: 8
Joined Nov 2008
Location: Wadsworth, Ohio
     
May 14, 2012 19:14 |  #14

Personally, I see absolutely nothing wrong with shooting short bursts of 2-4 frames to capture the actual image of peak action. If one is good enough to capture that action in a single shot, good on ya. I'm not. And I'm not afraid to hold the button down if it means getting shots like this:

IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5257/5399111366_f93ab2c510_b.jpg
IMAGE LINK: http://www.flickr.com …erphotography/5​399111366/  (external link)
IMG_2834 (external link) by snyderman3 (external link), on Flickr

They included that feature on a 7D and the 1D series for a good reason! Don't be bashful. Use it when necessary!

dave

Canon 5D2 > 35L-85L-135L

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
FlyingPhotog
Cream of the "Prop"
Avatar
57,560 posts
Likes: 178
Joined May 2007
Location: Probably Chasing Aircraft
     
May 14, 2012 19:15 |  #15

Thanks Dave... :D

Mark1 wrote in post #14431829 (external link)
For me it is more in the wording... I never "rely" on burst mode. But every now and then I do "make use of" burst. It is just another tool. Use it or dont, There is no right or wrong.

This is very much closer to the truth...

High FPS is just another arrow in the quiver. ;)


Jay
Crosswind Images (external link)
Facebook Fan Page (external link)

"If you aren't getting extraordinary images from today's dSLRs, regardless of brand, it's not the camera!" - Bill Fortney, Nikon Corp.

  
  LOG IN TO REPLY
sponsored links (only for non-logged)

9,284 views & 0 likes for this thread, 23 members have posted to it.
Burst mode...just how important...
FORUMS Photo Sharing & Discussion Sports 
AAA
x 1600
y 1600

Jump to forum...   •  Rules   •  Forums   •  New posts   •  RTAT   •  'Best of'   •  Gallery   •  Gear   •  Reviews   •  Member list   •  Polls   •  Image rules   •  Search   •  Password reset   •  Home

Not a member yet?
Register to forums
Registered members may log in to forums and access all the features: full search, image upload, follow forums, own gear list and ratings, likes, more forums, private messaging, thread follow, notifications, own gallery, all settings, view hosted photos, own reviews, see more and do more... and all is free. Don't be a stranger - register now and start posting!


COOKIES DISCLAIMER: This website uses cookies to improve your user experience. By using this site, you agree to our use of cookies and to our privacy policy.
Privacy policy and cookie usage info.


POWERED BY AMASS forum software 2.58forum software
version 2.58 /
code and design
by Pekka Saarinen ©
for photography-on-the.net

Latest registered member is Monkeytoes
1359 guests, 174 members online
Simultaneous users record so far is 15,144, that happened on Nov 22, 2018

Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.