Selling pics I take at MLB/MiLB games

I am a sports photographer, and I go to a lot of AAA games since a stadium is close to my house. I take my gear and shoot, only for me, but also to build a portfolio. Even though I see a lot of people with DSLR's, I still asked for permission to shoot, which I was granted, and I signed nothing or agreed to anything from the person that said I could shoot.

So, the question is: can I sell any of the pictures that I take? I was told by another sports shooter that frequents the games that I COULD NOT sell my pictures, and that I should remove the "Buy" button from my SmugMug galleries.

I am in no way doing this for money, only for my enjoyment, and my portfolio, which doesn't hurt. And I doubt I'd ever sell any of my pics anyway, but wanted to be clear on this.

Any thoughts?

Check with the office of your local team. Chances are that by buying a ticket, you are not allowed to use photos for anything other than personal use.

The answer is "it depends".

Unless there is a contract in place that prohibits sale of the images, copyright law allows you to sell them (as prints, postcards or for editorial use in newspapers etc). However, they can't be used for commercial use (advertising a product, company or service) without permission from the people featured in the images - usually in the form of a signed model release.

So the answer to your question is that it depends on if a legally binding contract exists between you and the organisers. Many event organisers print terms and conditions on the back of tickets, on websites and in programs etc stating that photography is only permitted for personal use and no commercial exploitation is allowed. They do this in large part to protect the pros, who have media accreditation, from competition.

If such terms and conditions exist and if they constitute a legally binding contract under your local law then sale would not be allowed. If however such terms and conditions do not constitute a legally binding contract (or no such T&C exist) then you can. You would most likely need to consult a local lawyer for a definitive answer.

JacobPhoto wrote in post #14443829
Check with the office of your local team. Chances are that by buying a ticket, you are not allowed to use photos for anything other than personal use.

I would bet this is the case. For instance, I had a few shots from my Tom Petty concert printed at 20X30 and framed because I had a few people who wanted to buy framed prints. Per the photo agreement I signed, that's fine because I'm not selling them to a company or business that will use them to promote something. It's just a framed print to an individual. (I contacted the publicist to be absolutely sure before I did anything)

Answer in form of a question, do you ever want to shoot another game?

Prints are legally editorial because they are not a product or used to advertise, or fit any definition of what commercial usage is unless you display it a certain way...however...MLB and all major sports organizations (NFL, NBA, NHL, MILB, etc) view prints as commercial and why companies like PhotoFile have to pay a licensing fee to be able to sell prints.

You can challenge their view all you want, and people have in the past with the biggest one being a battle with the NBA I do believe, but in the end all it means is your name is added to a list and you're not allowed in the stadium with a camera anymore. Seen it first hand with a local guy and know of a bunch more that had it happen to them as well.

So in the end it comes down to is the possibility of selling a few prints for minimal financial gain worth the hassle you'll get while trying to build a portfolio? Is stepping on the team photographers toes worth ticking off someone working in the field and can get your name around quick - especially with the stadium people and editors they work with on a regular basis - worth it?

Thanks for all of the replies, much appreciated.

I am in no way ever going to sell the pics, I am doing it for my own benefit, and as a portfolio, as I said. I do not want to get in the way of ANY photographer that is PAID to shoot the games, but I would love to use the pics as a portfolio to get work SOMEWHERE ELSE. I love shooting sports, and I have been going to this particular stadium for over 35 years. And what I'm doing there isn't any different from the other spectators that bring in their DSLR's either.

And the guy that gave me permission knows me now, and he knows that I will always check in with him when I go to the games, and he always says to me "I hope you're getting some good shots...". Also, I email him with a link to my pics, just so he knows what I am doing. No matter where I shoot I am ALWAYS respectful of the people and place.

Thanks again everyone!

just wanted to Add one thing I looked at your pictures for taking pictures in the stands you get some realy good shots, you should try and hook up with a local news paper or somthing get down on the ground flow and make a few bucks why you are at it.

pbisfun wrote in post #14446675
just wanted to Add one thing I looked at your pictures for taking pictures in the stands you get some realy good shots, you should try and hook up with a local news paper or somthing get down on the ground flow and make a few bucks why you are at it.

Well that is sorta my goal. I am NOT there to put their team photographer out of business, as some people on Twitter might think, but that's a long story in itself. But I DO want to create a portfolio to get a job with a media outlet, either web, print, whatever. I never toot my own horn, but I do think I'm not that bad. But I ALWAYS follow the rules, and do what I'm told. It's a small world to make a bad name for myself.

And the guy that gave me permission to shoot lets me on the field, if he's there, and I ask first. And I made that clear to him before he had a chance to tell me that, so that made our relationship better. I was at a game this past week, and didn't see him, so I just floated around the stands. Didn't bother me at all.

kenjancef wrote in post #14446710
Well that is sorta my goal. I am NOT there to put their team photographer out of business, as some people on Twitter might think, but that's a long story in itself. But I DO want to create a portfolio to get a job with a media outlet, either web, print, whatever. I never toot my own horn, but I do think I'm not that bad. But I ALWAYS follow the rules, and do what I'm told. It's a small world to make a bad name for myself.

And the guy that gave me permission to shoot lets me on the field, if he's there, and I ask first. And I made that clear to him before he had a chance to tell me that, so that made our relationship better. I was at a game this past week, and didn't see him, so I just floated around the stands. Didn't bother me at all.

I would just get in touch with the photo editor at your local newspaper and let them know that if they are ever shorthanded and don't have a staff photog to send to a game or whatever, that you are available to help them out. Worst they could say is no. That's basically what I did and now I freelance for the state's largest daily newspaper and get assignments probably couple times a month. For me, it looks good on a resume and it's a little extra cash and I get to add to my portfolio.

kenjancef wrote in post #14446710
Well that is sorta my goal. I am NOT there to put their team photographer out of business, as some people on Twitter might think, but that's a long story in itself. But I DO want to create a portfolio to get a job with a media outlet, either web, print, whatever. I never toot my own horn, but I do think I'm not that bad. But I ALWAYS follow the rules, and do what I'm told. It's a small world to make a bad name for myself.

And the guy that gave me permission to shoot lets me on the field, if he's there, and I ask first. And I made that clear to him before he had a chance to tell me that, so that made our relationship better. I was at a game this past week, and didn't see him, so I just floated around the stands. Didn't bother me at all.

bottom line - are you making money from the images? If so, you'll need the permission / blessing of the team and the league. Regardless of whether you're 'taking money' away from the team photographer or any other freelancer, once you're making money, then your purpose becomes commercial as opposed to personal.

kenjancef wrote in post #14444762
I would love to use the pics as a portfolio to get work SOMEWHERE ELSE.

Unlikely, the market is very small. You do it for free, you're probably not awful, once you're good enough to charge there will be someone else who's not awful who will do it for free.

tim wrote in post #14447214
Unlikely, the market is very small. You do it for free, you're probably not awful, once you're good enough to charge there will be someone else who's not awful who will do it for free.

That's not entirely true. I can't speak for his area, but there is work to be found in my area.

elrey2375 wrote in post #14447384
That's not entirely true. I can't speak for his area, but there is work to be found in my area.

I haven't really checked yet. Was worried about getting a portfolio set up first. With my luck, I'd stumble on a good situation, but have nothing to show. This way I'll be all set.

The thing with me is that I love sports, and the places I go to shoot are places I would go anyway. Like the NASCAR races in New Hampshire... This will be my 9th year in a row going there, so it makes sense to shoot it, the best I can anyway...