Can I turn my flash backwards

I'm doing my 1st wedding tonight (for free for a friend) and I have a question about taking group shots. After reading advice from this forum they advise using a single light above and behind the camera shooter for group shots to avoid shadows.

I'm wanting to put an umbrella above my head about 5 feet back using only two 580 EX II speedlites (one master and one slave) My question is: Can I turn my flash around (using a bracket) so it can communicate to the flash above & behind my head bouncing off the umbrella? I don't really want to mess with radio triggers at this point because I want to keep it simple.

I'm thinking that this would throw the focus asist light out of kilter and would be a bad idea. Am I right? If so, what would be a better way to accomplish this?

Otherwise, I'm thinking about just using fill-flash from the 580 exII on my camera and not even bothering about a second flash. It is going to be a small wedding and I don't anticipate large group shots, just family and bridal party shots after the ceremony.

Not entirely sure what you mean, do you want to use the on camera 580 just for triggering the off camera one, or do you want to use it in the exposure? I'm assuming the former, so then you're fine, the focus assist will still point the way you want it. If it's the latter you're going to struggle - if it's indoors you might want to use a Stofen on the on camera 580 to make sure the light gets everywhere.

John E wrote in post #14449974
I'm doing my 1st wedding tonight (for free for a friend) and I have a question about taking group shots. After reading advice from this forum they advise using a single light above and behind the camera shooter for group shots to avoid shadows.

I'm wanting to put an umbrella above my head about 5 feet back using only two 580 EX II speedlites (one master and one slave) My question is: Can I turn my flash around (using a bracket) so it can communicate to the flash above & behind my head bouncing off the umbrella? I don't really want to mess with radio triggers at this point because I want to keep it simple.

I'm thinking that this would throw the focus asist light out of kilter and would be a bad idea. Am I right? If so, what would be a better way to accomplish this?

Otherwise, I'm thinking about just using fill-flash from the 580 exII on my camera and not even bothering about a second flash. It is going to be a small wedding and I don't anticipate large group shots, just family and bridal party shots after the ceremony.

Yea, you can do that. Set the flash inside the umbrella to slave and the one on camera to Master. Then aim your flash on camera towards the flash behind you. Shoot away!

Yes, I was just wanting it to trigger the other flash inside the umbrella behind me, but I was worried that it would throw something else off since it's normally pointed foward. Thanks for your help!

Doesn't the IR trigger from the master come from the red panel on the front body of the flash? If so, then just turning the flash head around backwards will not point the IR beam backwards. You cannot mount the flash in the camera's hot shoe backwards. If you have it on a bracket that would work, but you would not have the focus assist beam; do you really need it though?
I would definitely set this up in a large room (like you would have at the event) ahead of time to test it.

No, it's not an IR trigger. The red panel of the SLAVE needs to face the actual physical master flash. It's ultimately optical; this is why it still emits a 'flash' when the master is ON and firing the slave, but the flash on the master itself is off. Make sense?

John E wrote in post #14449974
I'm doing my 1st wedding tonight (for free for a friend) and I have a question about taking group shots.

My sincere recommendation is that you keep things as simple as possible. A wedding (even a free one) is not the place to learn new techniques. Use hotshoe flash in E-TTL mode and forget anything that involves umbrellas, light stands or slaves.

Using an umbrella or any other modifier will drastically reduce the efficiency and power of a flash unit. Off camera flash with an umbrella can be cool but you need to practice and understand the limitations before you use the technique in a time-sensitive situation.

You'll have groups of people in front of you that just want to get the pictures done so they can hit the bar at the reception. They will quickly run out of patience while you futz around with your equipment.

Concentrate on posing and making sure the adults are looking at the camera and the kids aren't picking their noses. This is challenge enough. Line 'em up, get the shot, and move on.

Curtis N wrote in post #14451101
Concentrate on posing and making sure the adults are looking at the camera and aren't picking their noses. This is challenge enough. Line 'em up, get the shot, and move on.

I fixed that for you.

I posted this a while ago. With this you'll achieve the effect of using an umbrella behind you, you won't need an assistant, and a single flash is all that's needed.......

Illumi-Bounce Cap

Thanks for all the advice everyone! If I didn't have this forum I probably would have tried two monolights and umbrellas on either side of me (I've seen this done at weddings), which would have created terrible shadows for group shots. So...you saved my butt, so to speak. Curtin_N, I will definitely keep it simple using my flash on-camera.

Depending on the group size, you might want a big umbrella on ether side.

http://neilvn.com …g-formals-4-large-groups/

JakAHearts wrote in post #14451592
Depending on the group size, you might want a big umbrella on ether side.

http://neilvn.com …g-formals-4-large-groups/

I really tried to shy away from this as I read on the forum that this technique can get you into trouble with casting shadows on people's faces, but thanks for the advice.