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FORUMS Marketplace & Market Info Market Watch 
Thread started 19 May 2012 (Saturday) 03:13
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Adorama Sells Used Scratched Up Camera as New_ Very Disappointed

 
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cacawcacaw
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May 21, 2012 11:31 |  #151

mpix345 wrote in post #14462951 (external link)
... If the OP starts a thread titled "Does Adorama Sell Returned Cameras as New?" it would be very different. It would still give light to his issue, allow for discussion about it... .

Agreed, but there is very little rational discussion regarding vendors. Most of the comments fall to the extremes.

Here's my take on Adorama:

Helen's presence makes me want to like Adorama. Adorama's and B&H's free instructional videos do a great job of bringing photographers to their websites.

Adorama and B&H are the largest, best, and most ethical of the numerous New York super-discount camera retailers. But, they are by no means a small local mom-and-pop camera store.

These two companies consistently offer the lowest available price that doesn't include an upsell phone call accompanied by the threat of order cancellation.

Adorama is owned by Orthodox Jews. This is only pertinent in the sense that customers should be aware that Adorama does not conduct business between Friday afternoon/evening and Sunday morning or on the many Jewish holidays. Unfortunately, for those not of the Jewish faith, these closings (or shipping delays) often come as a surprise.

Like many of the major retailers, Adorama offers an affiliate program, leaving it up to the consumer to decide if a recommendation for Adorama is biased or not. (Most of the recommendations on this forum are simply from loyal satisfied customers.)

For absolute best prices, it is necessary to shop around for each specific item and it is necessary to consider shipping costs, sales tax, return policies, etc. to determine the "true" net cost. Usually, shopping Adorama, B&H, Amazon, NewEgg, Frys, Samy's, Costco, or Canon Direct will produce the lowest prices without having to resort to the riskier vendors.

Whenever feasible, I prefer to purchase at Amazon or Costco for their no-hassle return policy and immediate excellent service. Adorama and B&H do provide a good return policy and excellent customer service but apparently it usually requires a conversation (or two) with a representative, provided that they are open for business.

But, all things considered, after shopping for the best price/policies, in the case of a tie, the win goes to Helen for her personal touch. It doesn't matter whether you consider Helen to be a product of company generosity or shrewd marketing, she still adds value to Adorama.


Replacing my Canon 7D, Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 17-55mm, Sigma 30mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.4, and 150-500mm with a Panasonic Lumix FZ1000. I still have the 17-55 and the 30 available for sale.

  
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sigma ­ pi
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May 21, 2012 11:34 |  #152

GA_Teg wrote in post #14462708 (external link)
Thread Fail. Posting before contacting a company about a problem is not good for anyone.

Yup!


Don't try to confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up.
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sigma ­ pi
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May 21, 2012 11:41 |  #153

cacawcacaw wrote in post #14463407 (external link)
Agreed, but there is very little rational discussion regarding vendors. Most of the comments fall to the extremes.

Here's my take on Adorama:

Helen's presence makes me want to like Adorama. Adorama's and B&H's free instructional videos do a great job of bringing photographers to their websites.

Adorama and B&H are the largest, best, and most ethical of the numerous New York super-discount camera retailers. But, they are by no means a small local mom-and-pop camera store.

These two companies consistently offer the lowest available price that doesn't include an upsell phone call accompanied by the threat of order cancellation.

Adorama is owned by Orthodox Jews. This is only pertinent in the sense that customers should be aware that Adorama does not conduct business between Friday afternoon/evening and Sunday morning or on the many Jewish holidays. Unfortunately, for those not of the Jewish faith, these closings (or shipping delays) often come as a surprise.

Like many of the major retailers, Adorama offers an affiliate program, leaving it up to the consumer to decide if a recommendation for Adorama is biased or not. (Most of the recommendations on this forum are simply from loyal satisfied customers.)

For absolute best prices, it is necessary to shop around for each specific item and it is necessary to consider shipping costs, sales tax, return policies, etc. to determine the "true" net cost. Usually, shopping Adorama, B&H, Amazon, NewEgg, Frys, Samy's, Costco, or Canon Direct will produce the lowest prices without having to resort to the riskier vendors.

Whenever feasible, I prefer to purchase at Amazon or Costco for their no-hassle return policy and immediate excellent service. Adorama and B&H do provide a good return policy and excellent customer service but apparently it usually requires a conversation (or two) with a representative, provided that they are open for business.

But, all things considered, after shopping for the best price/policies, in the case of a tie, the win goes to Helen for her personal touch. It doesn't matter whether you consider Helen to be a product of company generosity or shrewd marketing, she still adds value to Adorama.

+1

And I like the colors on the Adorama site better than B&H


Don't try to confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up.
http://www.flickr.com …6850267535/in/p​hotostream (external link)

  
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professorman
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May 21, 2012 11:50 |  #154

I was really happy to see the birthday tribute Adorama gave to Helen. http://www.adorama.com …appy-Birthday-Helen-Oster (external link)

She really does an incredible job! I am just sorry that sometimes her job becomes challenging when she has to respond to statements based on fact-less accusations, and blank statements. How do you defend an argument that had no logic to begin with?

I can understand the OP wanting to vent. I would as well, however, the title of the tread is VERY misleading, and is hurting a business that is VERY dear to our (photographer's) hearts. We all love that Adorama exists, and in an age of online marketing, it is very comforting to know that a large retailer such has this has people who really care about your issues, and can deal with a customer's concerns even better than a local store can. In this age, where everything is purchased online, this level of customer service can not be taken for granted. In my photography business, I strive for perfect customer satisfaction, however, even in my small business, I have encountered the insatiable client before.

I just wished the OP given Adorama the opportunity to correct the mistake before voicing a tread which, to the ignorant observer, appears to be bashing Adorama.

Adorama is simply AWESOME!


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watt100
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May 21, 2012 12:20 |  #155

professorman wrote in post #14463471 (external link)
I was really happy to see the birthday tribute Adorama gave to Helen. http://www.adorama.com …appy-Birthday-Helen-Oster (external link)

She really does an incredible job!!


yes, the accolades for Helen are deserved. I wondered if Adorama realized Helen's online presence gave them an edge over the others




  
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You-by-Lou
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May 21, 2012 12:39 |  #156

fotoworx wrote in post #14461679 (external link)
Honestly, a business is in business to make money nothing more nothing less. It's make believe to not think that.

Customer service isn't something to be greatful for, it's something that a consumer should expect.

Yes Helen is wonderful Ambassador (and a nice person) for her company on POTN, it's fantastic marketing and a fantastic PR excercise for Adorama considering the huge and intimate closeness to a huge potential market base of customers and a very cheap way of dramatic word of mouth advertising.

You-by-Lou wrote in post #14462273 (external link)
that is an opinion not a fact. presenting it as a fact does not one make.

fotoworx wrote in post #14462306 (external link)
Ok I believe you, Adorama is not in business to make money.

that is not remotely close to what I said nor is it what you said.
you totally took what both of us said entirely out of context

you said it is the only reason nothing more nothing less
and that statement is simply ridiculous

read what you wrote read what I wrote...you can't paraphrase yourself.
nor did I even slightly intimate that they didn't want to make money

hysterical


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Ron ­ Bailey
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May 21, 2012 13:15 |  #157

HelenOster wrote in post #14462413 (external link)
Do you know how it all began?


http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=hKxGbNXt_Is (external link)


Thanks for the link, I had no idea.


http://www.ronbaileyph​otography.com/ (external link)

  
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Trique ­ Daddi
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May 21, 2012 13:21 |  #158

Adorama is owned by Orthodox Jews. This is only pertinent in the sense that customers should be aware that Adorama does not conduct business between Friday afternoon/evening and Sunday morning or on the many Jewish holidays. Unfortunately, for those not of the Jewish faith, these closings (or shipping delays) often come as a surprise

B&H is owned by Orthodox Jews. I have done business with both and both companies give amazing service.

Canon 7DMKII,7D 40D, 20D, CANON 100-400mm IS 4.5/5.6L, Canon 70-200mm 2.8L, Canon 50mm 1.8, Canon 100mm 2.8 macro, Kenko Extension Tubes, Sigma 17-50mm F2.8 EX DC OS, 580EX II Flash,Gittos MH 5580 monopod, Thinktank Airport Takeoff.

  
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cacawcacaw
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May 21, 2012 14:07 |  #159

Trique Daddi wrote in post #14463912 (external link)
... B&H is owned by Orthodox Jews. I have done business with both and both companies give amazing service.

Unless it's Saturday or a holiday!

From what I was reading, it sounds like they do have a choice regarding their store closures. If they were willing to take on a non-Jewish business partner, they could stay open 24/7 without violating their faith.

So, for those who are unabashed fans, keep in mind that they made a business decision to retain Jewish control of the business, even at the expense of customer service. (And just because this happens to involve Jews, this isn't anti-semitism. I would be just as quick to point this out whether the store hours involved Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, or Islamic beliefs.)

If we are going to make the argument that complaints should be kept in perspective, we should also keep our accolades in perspective.


Now if Adorama was to decide that POTN members with more than 2,455 posts ought to receive an ongoing 30% discount, then I would be willing to sign on "until death do us part" even if I had to wear a Yamaka. In the meantime, I'm not married to any one company.


Replacing my Canon 7D, Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 17-55mm, Sigma 30mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.4, and 150-500mm with a Panasonic Lumix FZ1000. I still have the 17-55 and the 30 available for sale.

  
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D. ­ Vance
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May 21, 2012 14:13 |  #160

cacawcacaw wrote in post #14464146 (external link)
Unless it's Saturday or a holiday!

From what I was reading, it sounds like they do have a choice regarding their store closures. If they were willing to take on a non-Jewish business partner, they could stay open 24/7 without violating their faith.

So, for those who are unabashed fans, keep in mind that they made a business decision to retain Jewish control of the business, even at the expense of customer service. (And just because this happens to involve Jews, this isn't anti-semitism. I would be just as quick to point this out whether the store hours involved Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, or Islamic beliefs.)

If we are going to make the argument that complaints should be kept in perspective, we should also keep our accolades in perspective.


Now if Adorama was to decide that POTN members with more than 2,455 posts ought to receive an ongoing 30% discount, then I would be willing to sign on "until death do us part" even if I had to wear a Yamaka. In the meantime, I'm not married to any one company.

Im guessing that it would be considered wrong, even if they are not doing the work themselves.
I know if I have a business, no matter whether I do the work or not, the doors will be closed Sunday; its what I believe, Adorama believes something different. I admire them for taking a stand on what they believe is right, whether I agree or not.


I wonder if the video editors on The Titanic ever went, "Sorry, I can't right now. I'm busy synching the Titanic..."

  
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May 21, 2012 14:15 |  #161

cacawcacaw wrote in post #14464146 (external link)
From what I was reading, it sounds like they do have a choice regarding their store closures. If they were willing to take on a non-Jewish business partner, they could stay open 24/7 without violating their faith.

At Adorama we do appreciate that our closing times can be inconvenient to some of our potential customers. Our website can accept orders, because we don't actually make a charge until an order is shipped - this of course causes its own problems of inventory updates....
Adorama's owner is an observant orthodox Jewish gentleman, whose beliefs
prohibit him - his family and his business - from operating on the Sabbath and on many of the religious holidays (which all begin an hour prior to sunset the evening before the day of the holiday, which is why we close early on Fridays).
We can't employ non-Jews here during those days, because to do so would involve the company conducting business - which is forbidden in Jewish Law.

In this era of 24-hour commerce, I guess it's unusual to find that there really are still people who consider their spiritual duty to be more important than squeezing money out of our customers at every opportunity. I receive frequent emails from customers who state that in this day and age it is comforting to know there are people around who do not place money before all else.

Many businesses in the US and elsewhere in the world force employees to work on holidays when the time is better spent with their friends and families - or just relaxing by themselves.

We are grateful for the understanding of our customers that this is an
important element of our owner's value system. Perhaps the following links to articles in the Washington Post & the New York Times will help to make some sense of our closure policies:

http://online.wsj.com …NnlaJ3o5yubXSHa​K6Jm4.html (external link)

http://www.nytimes.com …com.html?_r=1&o​ref=slogin (external link)



  
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mpix345
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May 21, 2012 14:21 |  #162

I am pretty solidly "non-religious", but I absolutely respect the position taken by Adorama and B&H. It does represent to me that they have bigger beliefs than the dollar. I think that probably carries over into how they run all aspects of their business. Doesn't make them perfect, nor make me love them, but I am impressed by it.


  
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kjonnnn
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May 21, 2012 14:30 |  #163

If you didn't pay attention, you would think this thread about some life saving entity, on whom our lives depend on their perfection and being open 24/7. Its a photography store people ... lighten up.




  
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cacawcacaw
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May 21, 2012 14:37 as a reply to  @ HelenOster's post |  #164

Helen, there's got to be a better way of letting the customer know how the schedule will affect their order. I love Amazon's straightforward statement: "Want it delivered Tuesday, May 22? Order it in the next 4 hours and 5 minutes, and choose One-Day Shipping at checkout." Followed by a button for more options.

I'm not saying this stuff just to be critical. I'd love to have Adorama as my go-to first source instead of Amazon.

Although I do find it a little off-putting that the owner of Adorama prefers to compromise his company's customer service over taking on a non-Jewish partner. And it's not a matter of "squeezing more money out of the customers" - it's a matter of making life a little easier for existing customers. And for many people, Saturday is camera shopping day while Sunday is church/family day. But it's his business, his choice. Just as it's my choice to decide whether the inconvenience is offset by some other factor.


Replacing my Canon 7D, Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 17-55mm, Sigma 30mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.4, and 150-500mm with a Panasonic Lumix FZ1000. I still have the 17-55 and the 30 available for sale.

  
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cacawcacaw
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May 21, 2012 14:41 |  #165

kjonnnn wrote in post #14464260 (external link)
If you didn't pay attention, you would think this thread about some life saving entity, on whom our lives depend on their perfection and being open 24/7. Its a photography store people ... lighten up.

Ok. :)


.


Replacing my Canon 7D, Tokina 12-24mm, Canon 17-55mm, Sigma 30mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.4, and 150-500mm with a Panasonic Lumix FZ1000. I still have the 17-55 and the 30 available for sale.

  
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