I need some quick business advice!

As you may know, I have a site where I sell my posed and action shots to the parents of the Lacrosse teams. (U9, U11, U13, HS boys, and HS girls) Well, I got an email last night, that I'm not sure how to handle. I've never had this happen before. Here is the email:

"Tim and I have been keeping stats on all of the games and the HS boys for the
NRVLC 2012 season and we wanted to give the boys a "trading card" that has their
stats on it. I created cards that use your image; however, I wanted to touch
base with you to see how you felt about it. I realize that your photos are
copyrighted, and would want to compensate you for the use of the thumbnails on
their trading cards.

If you provide me with your regular e-mail, I can send you the cards that I
created in PowerPoint so that you can see what type/how many I used.

I would appreciate your input in this matter. Thanks for taking all of those
great pictures of the kids, especially the action shots! They were all great.

Thanks,"

How do I go about being compensated? Do I tell them they can't use my photos? I'm assuming they're not making money off of them, because it says, "Giving" them to the boys. If my name is on the photo in the corner, and they're not charging, it doesn't seem like a big deal. I also have an option on my site to buy digital copies of photos, so not sure if I make them do that for each pic? That seems a bit much.

What do I do???? Thanks!

I would make sure if there is a charge per card, if so, ask for a percentage or a flat fee per photo. If there is no charge, ask to have a saying on which photo they use and make sure your logo goes on every photo. This is only my 2 cents on how I would handle it. Remember, free publicity is not a bad thing haha.

manlou wrote in post #14467842
I would make sure if there is a charge per card, if so, ask for a percentage or a flat fee per photo. If there is no charge, ask to have a saying on which photo they use and make sure your logo goes on every photo. This is only my 2 cents on how I would handle it. Remember, free publicity is not a bad thing haha.

Exactly how I'd handle it too

However, you haven't specified who the other person is.
Are they an official or coach, or somehow connected to the game?
Would getting them off side hurt your chances of getting access to continue taking photos?
If so, then I would embrace their idea and make sure you get some sort of logo on the cards.
If not, and they are just a 3rd party who wants to big note themselves, make them compensate you.

Sometimes you have to pick your battles.

If the cards are being given out with shots that you would normally charge for I feel you should be compensated a little as it could potentially cost you money. The actual amount though will be up to you as only you know how much you typically make from the sale of the HS photos. If you do decide to let this person use your shots then I would make sure everything is in writing as to compensation (if any), which specific shots are being used, and that you are only giving permission for this one project. That way the other person understands that they don't have some type of general permission to use the shots for other things. I understand the compensation part is difficult when it is a parent wanting to do something nice and not making any money off it themselves.

Ok as a parent im going to say it this way and it might sound wrong but its going to be so true....
i wouldnt buy any more pictures from you if i was going to be getting cards from someone else for free...

First of all...
How did they get your photo's
If they took a thumbnail from your website and are using it then you need to upgrade your site.

Secondly, are they charging for the trading cards? If they are and you want to help them and charge for it you should probably give them something better than the thumbnails to use.

If it were my business I wouldn't want something with my name on it that I wasn't in direct control of the quality. If they use a cheap printer with your thumbnails, stolen from your site, I would say no way!

Most photo web hosting sites (smugmug, zenfolio, wordpress, etc...) have access to create very professional looking trading cards. If they want trading cards and you don't mind doing it, I would politely let them know that you can make very high quality cards for the kids that want them and all you need are their stats. Their response will let you know whether they were doing this for the kids or trying to make money off of them.

Just my .02,

I would never let someone else build something with one of my images without being involved to where I'm providing the images directly to the creator.

And in doing so, I would charge a licensing fee for the use. Doesn't have to be brazillions of dollars but it has to be representative of the expenses involved in capturing the images either shot by shot or as a collection of images.

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #14469698
I would never let someone else build something with one of my images without being involved to where I'm providing the images directly to the creator.

And in doing so, I would charge a licensing fee for the use. Doesn't have to be brazillions of dollars but it has to be representative of the expenses involved in capturing the images either shot by shot or as a collection of images.

This. How did they even get the photos? If they want to do it right, you should provide them with full-res copies of the photos first, before they start building something.

Thanks for all of the advice.

fishingkats- I am worried about the same thing!! But, even if they don't use my images, there is that worry. I doubt there is anything I can do about it.......

And, I have NO idea how they got my images. All of my images on my site are watermarked........hmm​mm.........Unless they pulled them, and just used them for examples, and were planning on switching them out for good quality ones, once they got my permission. I have no clue.......

I'm waiting for her email, showing me what they look like. Still not sure what I'm going to do, or whether they're charging for them. I guess we'll see!

scsurfdad wrote in post #14469673
First of all...
How did they get your photo's
If they took a thumbnail from your website and are using it then you need to upgrade your site.

Secondly, are they charging for the trading cards? If they are and you want to help them and charge for it you should probably give them something better than the thumbnails to use.

If it were my business I wouldn't want something with my name on it that I wasn't in direct control of the quality. If they use a cheap printer with your thumbnails, stolen from your site, I would say no way!

Most photo web hosting sites (smugmug, zenfolio, wordpress, etc...) have access to create very professional looking trading cards. If they want trading cards and you don't mind doing it, I would politely let them know that you can make very high quality cards for the kids that want them and all you need are their stats. Their response will let you know whether they were doing this for the kids or trying to make money off of them.

Just my .02,

Oh, and I use Smugmug. I've tried screen grabbing my OWN photos before, and it didn't work. Not sure how they got them........

LaxMom wrote in post #14470621
Oh, and I use Smugmug. I've tried screen grabbing my OWN photos before, and it didn't work. Not sure how they got them........

There are ways. Look at it this way... any pixels that get loaded to their screen, the data is on their computer in some fashion... then they just have to save it, to which there are many simple ways (other than right clicking, and screen-shots would be a last resort), and I am sure there are far more inventive ways.

-----

One part that stood out to me.. the cards are designed using PowerPoint!?!

I have seen some nifty stuff done in PowerPoint, and God knows I have had to use PowerPoint as a "ghetto figure creator" for my paying job. UGH. I loathe PowerPoint. Very interested to see if the card templates look as bad as I can guess. PowerPoint can't hold a candle to any dedicated photo editing/manipulating software. Heck, they couldn't even use the cost angle, as there is at a minimum "the Gimp", which is ridiculously powerful, and then you find out it's FREE, legally.

------

Charging stuff.. I dunno. I have never been in that situation, though I would be slightly concerned about quality, given the above.

A mere 3 weeks ago you were about to give up and now you want to charge? You are new, "Tim and I" seems new, why do you feel the need to charge at this point? On the other hand, just because "Tim and I" feel the need to give away something that involves your work you are not compelled to let them use your work. Is it possible that if there is a charge for the cards no one will want to pay? Parents can swipe your work off Smugmug for free, who cares about some silly cards that will hang on the fridge and get tossed in a few weeks. Most people today want to post something digital on facebook with or without a watermark or big X in the middle, they don't care.
At this point in your "career", please don't be bullied by the POTN photo sharks who would charge their own sister for taking wedding pictures. Give back to your LAX community. Maybe it might help with your eventual sales.

i think you need to upgrade your site to prevent that of course. And i think that they need to buy your images if they want to use them. If they have a problem with that then you should offer to design the cards yourself and off to sell that to them as a possible solution that way you have complete control over your image and do not have to worry about them skewing or stretching the image and messing them up.

There is some good news here: (A) She contacted you and let you know she would like to use your images, and (B) She understands that you own the copyright to the images, and she needs your permission to use them, and she has offered to compensate you for using them. Trust me, that's more ethical and more knowledgeable than 99% of the parents out there. If I were in your shoes, I would let her know that you do not want her using thumbnails of your images, but would be happy to supply her with full res images, if she really wants to make her own Trading Cards. Tell her you will sell her the images for a discounted price since she wants to use one of every player. Then give her a 2x3in @300 dpi image for about 50% of what you charge for your smallest print on Smugmug. Let her know that the images are for one time use on the Trading Cards. She gets a full res image for her cards at a very reasonable price, you keep your business integrity intact; i.e., you sell, you do not give away your work.