Keeping the hobby a hobby, while not stepping on professional's toes?

I've been playing and trying to learn photography for about a year now, but have always viewed it as something that is purely a hobby. I have an interest in optics, and I enjoy the art of photography because it amuses me and I can have a bit of fun. (And I'm slightly better at it than drawing.)

I've been learning a fair bit, getting shots closer to what I had in mind when I set out to take them, and friends/family generally enjoy the snap-shots I can capture with my larger gear than their little point and shoots, but I'm still new, still learning, and very much just a hobbyist photographer. I'm merely a guy with a camera, and am very well aware of this.

But this still hasn't stopped people trying to hire me. Personally I got into photography as a hobby for personal satisfaction, and have zero desire to make money from the field. To me, I want to play with photography on my own time, do my own thing, and own nothing to anyone regarding it. I've always felt that accepting cash for my work in the field places obligations on my head that I simply don't want to deal with.

And yet, I've been offered jobs doing weddings and a few family events. Payments were ranging from a "Free Lunch" up to a few grand with one family friend. (She kept upping her offer when I explained that I didn't even have the gear I would need to do her wedding properly.) And most recently was a parent wanting to buy photos I took over the weekend at a sports practice.


It seems this hobby can be rather hard to keep just an uncommitted hobby that has as few strings attached as possible.

There is the other issue of slipping into a field along side people who are trying to actually make a profit, and how to deal with them, and how to not screw them over while still maintaining your own hobby. My current plan is to simply bow out to any reasonable photographer if they have an issue or find I'm hurting their business, and collect their contact info to pass on to people looking to hire a professional. (Of course, anyone who is less than civil over the issue can get bent in my book.)

Any other thoughts on the issue, and how other people handled it?

Dont do anything you arent totally comfortable with. Explain that just because you do one aspect of photography well, that doesnt make you qualified to do other photo jobs. As for not stepping on a pro's toes, its admirable that you dont want to mess wtih somebody's livlihood, but I wouldnt worry about that too much. If they cant sustain their business with a little competition from you, they probably dont need to be in business anyway.

Rule #1: Don't Lowball...

The fastest way to get working professionals upset is to come along and quote some ridiculously low price simply because you can. It shows a lack of respect for the industry and a lack of respect for yourself.

Your gear isn't any cheaper. Your lights aren't any cheaper. You don't pay lower taxes. You don't have access to vastly cheaper gas, insurance, supplies, clothing, etc. so why wouldn't you charge based on a proper value for all of the above?

And I'll b*tchslap the first person who spouts the tired "Adapt or Die" line because this isn't what this is about and you all know it. It's one thing to provide a better product on a level playing field where you have a fighting chance to shine. It's another to simply have your ballz cut off by someone for no other reason than they doubt their own ability and don't think they're "good enough."

No offense to the OP as I actually respect your willingness to understand your place in all of this. If you can't really commit to doing business in a proper fashion, you aren't doing anyone any favors by skirting the proper channels. In the long run, you can do yourself more harm than good if the authorities find out you're not doing business on the up and up.

If you have the skills and kit to accomplish a given task, then by all means, have at it but do it in a professional manner even if you don't consider yourself a "professional."

I think the right response is very circumstantial.

• If I was at a sporting event shooting my own child, and another parent wanted some shots, and there is not a pro on location taking shots for sale, I would make my photos available to other parents who approached me; I would NOT 'solicit business'. In fact, I would hope that someone would take a photo of my own child and offer it to me. And a very reasonable 'for the cost of the print' might be all that was exchanged in any direction!
  
• If I was a hired pro working a specific function, and someone approached me to do similar work for them, I would suggest a reasonable and competitve bid, not one which undercuts the predominant rate for the area by a subtantial amount.
  
• If I was purely an amateur shooting somewhere, and someone approached me about some job, I would carefully consider how well/poorly I am in experience in shooting that type requested job, then explain the lack of experience or tell them how much experience I have, and perhaps price according to my lack of experience.
  
• If I was pro shooting somewhere, and someone approached me about some job, I would carefully consider how well/poorly I am in experience in shooting that type requested job, then explain the lack of experience or tell them how much experience I have, and perhaps price according to my lack of experience, using the predominant rate for the area as the reference point for commensurate discounting for my lack of prior experience.
  
• Weddings often are 'once in a lifetime' things that are not easily restaged and reshot...greatgrandma might not be able to withstand another cross country flight...she might not even still be alive at the time of the restaged event! This is a very big factor in deciding whether to even attempt something, or to simply recommend hiring a properly experienced pro who has a portfolio of shots to demonstrate their skills.
  

I see you are in Canada. The tax law may be different. You may need to declare your income as profits from a business if the hobby income cap is beyond certain dollar amount. In the US, it is $600. Anything above that, you have to pay the self-employment business tax along with your personal income tax, generally.

It looks like you have a market there. Don't do any paid works unless you are 100% sure you can deliver good quality products, period. You would need a business website to handle proofing and photos viewing, and be able to handle print orders as well (especially with sport photography). Your job should only be photographing the events and to post process them. To market your works. You shouldn't be dealing with print orders and photo deliveries on the client side, and other photo orders. Your site should handle all of them.

It is one thing when you have 1 or 2 parents wanting prints. It is another when you are regularly getting 10 to 20 print orders in a single shoot. This is not something you want to do it yourself. This is more with sport photography.

You should do what you want to do and are confident that you can do to your satisfaction and to the satisfaction of any clients you might gain. And you owe no one (except perhaps a client) any explanation whatsoever. You are not obligated to avoid stepping on anyone's toes, to provide anyone else a fighting chance at a paying job, or to consider anyone else's list of dos and don'ts.

>>>...I want to play with photography on my own time, do my own thing, and own nothing to anyone regarding it.

That sounds good. Sadly, it doesn't often line up with doing work for money.

It's the so called "pros" who are the ones who piss off he pros. You know who I am talking about, its the ones who are getting paid, madly snapping off pictures every 5 seconds, showing up with built in pop up flashes and kit lenses and entry level DSLR equipment. Moving about wildly.

Nothing wrong with not accepting money for photos if your not comfortable with it, it brings on extra hassle and liability you may not want to deal with. I would say its far better to not charge a dime vs. charging a nominal fee (couple hundred bucks) for a full days event. At the same time its not your responsibility to bow out to the pro photographers and to give them referrals.

For quite a while I was the second shooter to a really good photographer. I got the shots I wanted to get and I just tried not to block or interfere with the primary shooter at events. Now I am the primary shooter and I am being pestered by a lot of non pro's shooting around me which is quite distracting so I know how it feels. It makes my job harder but i try to ignore it and just get the shots I want.

I think some of you kind of missed my point of keeping it a Hobby.

I don't have to worry about income tax because I plan to simply avoid collecting any kind of income from photography. Want a photo I took at an event for personal use? You're welcome to it.

I have zero interest in photography as a business. Thus the potential for conflict with people who rely on photography for an income, so working out how best to continue to enjoy my hobby and being able to share it with the community is rather important to me.

i'd say do what you are doing already...i'm in the same boat, a few friends have asked me to do portraits and such of them..i have no problem doing it and enjoy the added experience but i make sure to tell them that i am not greatly experienced in that form of photography and then there's others that have asked for prints of a few of my pictures. i have no problem providing that but i have no desire to take my hobby to not being a hobby anymore.

Luckless wrote in post #14469547
Any other thoughts on the issue, and how other people handled it?

Don't worry about it.

If your shooting at the same event as me, and people would rather buy your photos than mine, then I'm not doing my job properly. Its my failing and my problem to deal with, not yours.


And there is nothing any Pro can do to stop your friends and family wanting you to shoot their family portraits.
You should be taking that as a compliment, they clearly trust your ability.
If you feel able to do it and produce a job they will be happy with, then go ahead.
Again, as a Pro, if I'm not able to sell my experience as being better than yours, then its my failing and not your problem.


A small note on shooting weddings of friends and family: Don't.
Simply because it means a huge amount of work and you won't be able to just enjoy the day which is hopefully more important to them.

Considering that you just want to keep it a hobby, do just that. If you happen to be at an event where there is a hired photographer, just be respectful, capture your own personal photos and if anyone asks you to shoot some photos for them, politely let them know that you are shooting for personal reasons and refer them to the person hired to do the job. Photography is my sole job. I shoot a lot of youth sports and I have absolutely no problem with other people shooting along side me. What is irritating is if I were the hired team photographer and I'm out there trying to make a living and a mom/dad/aunt/uncle is shooting along side me and acting as the un-invited team photographer and passing out cards. Just use common sense and be respectful if you're shooting an event that already has a hired photographer.

Moppie wrote in post #14470438
Don't worry about it.

If your shooting at the same event as me, and people would rather buy your photos than mine, then I'm not doing my job properly. Its my failing and my problem to deal with, not yours.


And there is nothing any Pro can do to stop your friends and family wanting you to shoot their family portraits.
You should be taking that as a compliment, they clearly trust your ability.
If you feel able to do it and produce a job they will be happy with, then go ahead.
Again, as a Pro, if I'm not able to sell my experience as being better than yours, then its my failing and not your problem.


A small note on shooting weddings of friends and family: Don't.
Simply because it means a huge amount of work and you won't be able to just enjoy the day which is hopefully more important to them.

I couldn't agree more... If the pro needs the GWC and people just starting out to be considerate in order for them to retain the market exclusivity, their business models won't last for long. There are TOO many GWCs who do not care at all (why should they). And the nature of the market isn't all that exclusive at all.

You don't get ahead in your market by telling other photographers not to compete with you. I don't even know how this would work in the REAL WORLD...

'GWC'...? ? ?

You made it clear you dont want to deal with the hassles of a "business" nor want to make money…

If you are inclined to go ahead with the requests from parents to purchase photos, or doing a wedding on a low key basis, you can simply have them purchase prints at cost thru a website like Smugmug…

as for compensation for a wedding- if they insist on "paying", suggest a gift certificate to B&H for more equipment in lieu of cash!

Wilt wrote in post #14471166
'GWC'...? ? ?

"Guy or girl with camera." It is referring to people who have just purchased their cameras and still shooting in the P mode or Green Box mode and wanting to make some money from their photography.