Focus and recompose causing me softness and misery

I have confirmd that I am ruining my shots by focusing and recomposing. I thought my EF 35mm F2 was soft, so I took some direct shots of my daughters eyes last night without F&R and they are sharp. I thought I was missing the eyes for focus when i saw that the red focus point was not on the eyes, but then I realized that the red square was showing me where it was as I snapped the shutter, not where I originally focused at.

I realize that the dof is thin at 2.0, but i was missing at 2.8 as well and even 3.2 some.

Is this a worse problem with a wider lens? I don't seem to have this problem with my 100mm F2, and I suspect it's because I am further back and don't have to move the camera as much to recompose, am I correct in this assumption. Are wider lenses harder to focus and recompose?

When i watch videos of pros taking shots, it doesn't look to me like they are taking the time to manually select a focus point on their cameras, so how the heck do they get such great shots if they have to F&R too using wide lenses?

I have the 35mm F2, the 60mm Macro F2.8, and the 100mm F2 for portraits, and my bodies are the 450D XSI and the 500D XSI, and both only have the one center cross type focus point, which means the outer ones probably won't work with my 2.8 and faster lenses.

It is starting to dawn on me that I am going to need a body with more focus points and all of them cross type. I know the 7D has all cross type, 11 I think. t looks like I may have to get a much more expensive body, hg.

Any tips on this subject? Should I give up shooting portraits with a 35mm on a crop body since the camera has to move so far to recompose? I'm looking for a solution to this problem as I can't get very serious about portraits until I can consistently get sharp shots of the eyes.

Sorry for rambling on, just feel frustrated about this. Look at my post about flash on the background while using continuous lighting, I posted two pics there, both soft in the eyes from F&R.

The 35 mm lens should work fine at f2. If you don't need that shallow dof bump up the f stop to 5.6 or 8. The 50D and 7D both allow you to select an individual focus point. If the 500D doesn't then use manual focus or let the camera focus on the models face and crop the image to recompose.

Dont forget that the DOF depends on the distance to the subject as well. The difference between F2 and F2.8 at 3 feet subject distance on your camera body is only .1inches of difference. F3.2 adds only .04 inches more. Even at F3.2, .17 of the total DOF is in front of the subject.

If youre further away, even a foot, you DOF nearly doubles and should rid you of your problems. You can play with these numbers here - http://www.dofmaster.c​om/dofjs.html

Are you using back button focusing? I found that my success rate of recomposing went up dramatically when I separated the focus function from the trigger. I was inadvertantly refocusing by having a twitchy trigger finger.

gonzogolf wrote in post #14483644
Are you using back button focusing? I found that my success rate of recomposing went up dramatically when I separated the focus function from the trigger. I was inadvertantly refocusing by having a twitchy trigger finger.

Remind me to never go hunting with you.

JakAHearts wrote in post #14483687
Remind me to never go hunting with you.

I've never had to recompose with a rifle.

gonzogolf wrote in post #14483644
Are you using back button focusing? I found that my success rate of recomposing went up dramatically when I separated the focus function from the trigger. I was inadvertantly refocusing by having a twitchy trigger finger.

I'm going to try it on my 60D. It was suggested to try it out during the workshop I attended last week.

http://www.youtube.com​/watch?v=1F4KFyz7KoE

My 450D and 500D do allow choosing of any of the nine focus points, but in these bodies the only cross type is the center one and from what I understand the rest won't function as well with lenses 2.8 or faster, so that's why I am thinking i will probably need to invest in something with more cross type focus points.

Good info on the dof, thanks much. That's some thin stuff the closer you get, wow. So then my 35mmmay be a bit too wide for single portraits, I guess it will be better used for group shots standing further back. Not sure why I was thinking that lens would be great for closer, indoors portraits, cause I am still having to get right up close to that 3 feet distance that was mentioned. Looks like i need to stick to my 60mm Macro and my 100 F2 for portraits. 35mm for groups and landscapes I guess.

Yeah, I realize the 50D also lets you choose the focus points, but I need to find out if the center point is the only cross point in it like these rebel bodies. I like the idea of the 50D because it has micro focus adjust and they took that feature away in the 60D. I already know that the 7D has all cross type focus points, but that thing is expensive, man oh man.

So next shoot I will give the outer line type focus points a shot and see how they do with the 35mm, and then also just use my 60mm macro and see how it does indoors, i'll just have to back off but that should make my recomposing easier with a larger depth of field and not having to move the camera but very little to recompose.

Not sure why I was thinking that the 35mm would be a good portrait lens because even on my crops I still have to be like 3 feet away or less for a normal head and shoulders portraits, and it seems like I have to move the camera a mile to recompose the shot because it's so wide. Now I know that close in like that the dof is razor thin, so it looks like it will be out as a single portrait lens unless my outer focus points can work with it and do a decent job.

I have gone back and forth between back button focusing but that hasn't helped, I am sure I am keeping the shutter half way and I see the focus lock light on in the view finder, so that isn't the problem.

I'm just glad that my 35mm isn't soft. i first thought it had a focus problem but after no recompose, just dead on at the eye it was as sharp as a tack, so that's what let me know that it's the recompose that is cdausing the problems, and I am pretty steady too so I will have to hope the outer focus points work with it or I simply won't be able to use it for indoors, close up portraits with the dof that thin, or maybe crop like someone said, hate to do that all the time, though

Are you in single shot? If you focus with the center point, and recompose when you look at the image the red square will still be in the center even though its not on your subject. And thats fine. Just as long as your in single shot focus, and not AI.

Use the 100mm f2 for portraits but don't shoot too close. Try 15-20 feet away and then crop a little if necessary. Don't look to change equipment but learn to use what you have and become proficient with it.

guitarjeff, I've felt the same effect with my T2i (550D) and have contemplated the need for other cross-type AF points. The 50D (like the 40D) has 9 cross-type points, the outers are 5.6 and the center is 2.8 (according to dpreview).

I mostly shoot my (quick moving) kids. Since I switched a month or two ago, I've had a bit more luck with the back button focusing / recompose / shoot (in quick succession). I also will preemptively go to 5.6 to avoid frustration. I suspect a lot of my difficulty is subject movement rather than DoF.

Please post here if you do get another camera and experiment. I'm curious.

edit:
The 50 1.8 II is practically worthless on my T2i when autofocusing wide open, even without recomposing. It's fine with a stationary object when manually focusing via live view. I suspect it would benefit from micro-adjust...

I know this isn't a recent thread but I'm certain I've used outer points on my dust collecting 450D in the past with 50/1.4 & 85/1.8.....

Ever wondered why some pros use really long zoom lens when doing full portraits? It's because shooting at an open aperture like 2.8 allows more light in. The far distance increases the DOF. If you framed the same shot with a 28mm prime with aperture at 2.8, your DOF is MUCH thinner than shooting at 200mm.

But if you want that really shallow DOF, wider is better since your closer to the subject

guitarjeff wrote in post #14483255
When i watch videos of pros taking shots, it doesn't look to me like they are taking the time to manually select a focus point on their cameras, so how the heck do they get such great shots if they have to F&R too using wide lenses?

...

It is starting to dawn on me that I am going to need a body with more focus points and all of them cross type. I know the 7D has all cross type, 11 I think. t looks like I may have to get a much more expensive body, hg.

If you have a body with a joystick controller, you can set it up so selecting the focus point is a one-click action.

Have you tried using the outer focus points yet? I mean, why spend the money if you haven't proven that you need all cross-type points? The 7D autofocus is probably overkill if you are just shooting portraits.