Help deciding on triggers vs cable (also gel question)

I am going to be purchasing a 2nd 430ex II. I will be using these indoor and outdoors for portraits and other things. I know that off camera when triggered by my 60D I cannot use HSS so lowering ambient light outdoors is harder to do. I also know that the IR signal is less reliable in harsh sunlight. So my question is, should I pick up this and either be able to use HSS with 1 flash or run both at 1/250 or less? OR should I pick up some rf-602 triggers and lose the ability of off camera HSS completely?

I was also curious about some gels. I am looking at 2 different ones available on Amazon. These ones, more of them ( I believe multiples of each color) and cheaper but harder to use/smaller. Or there are theseones. These ones are much larger and appear to be better quality as well as easier to use.

Personally I'd get a 2nd hand 550EX and some cheap triggers so you have the option of two flash HSS (550 as master) or two flashes off camera at 1/250. Could combine that with an off camera ttl cord for the 550 and have both off camera with HSS. The wireless still isn't amazing outside, but it is better than the built in 60D controller.

As for the gels, I wouldn't say the others are better quality - Rosco are well regarded. I have the strobist set and I just stick them to the flash with static, or stick them under the wide panel.

Ratjack wrote in post #14504883
I know that off camera when triggered by my 60D I cannot use HSS so lowering ambient light outdoors is harder to do.

HSS does not make it easier to lower ambient light outdoors. HSS allows faster shutter speeds, but that approach affects flash exposure too. HSS allows larger apertures for blurred backgrounds, but it comes with dramatically reduced flash range.

A much easier approach is to use ND filters. Admittedly, these will also reduce your flash range but not as much as HSS. And by using ND filters and X-sync shutter speed, you can use any flash or studio strobe with any triggering method.

Curtis N wrote in post #14505126
HSS does not make it easier to lower ambient light outdoors. HSS allows faster shutter speeds, but that approach affects flash exposure too. HSS allows larger apertures for blurred backgrounds, but it comes with dramatically reduced flash range.

A much easier approach is to use ND filters. Admittedly, these will also reduce your flash range but not as much as HSS. And by using ND filters and X-sync shutter speed, you can use any flash or studio strobe with any triggering method.

Can you link me to a good ND filter? I see all different kinds and would have no idea what to get. I see some people with a really nice looking one that you slide a shaded glass piece into and others that just screw onto the lens. Could you also explain what x-sync is? So HSS really reduces the effect of a flash.... well that sucks. Kind of defeats the purpose. So seeing this... it would probably be a waste getting a 580ex II for the master function if it is going to kill the flash power.

Curtis N wrote in post #14505126
HSS does not make it easier to lower ambient light outdoors. HSS allows faster shutter speeds, but that approach affects flash exposure too. HSS allows larger apertures for blurred backgrounds, but it comes with dramatically reduced flash range.

A much easier approach is to use ND filters. Admittedly, these will also reduce your flash range but not as much as HSS. And by using ND filters and X-sync shutter speed, you can use any flash or studio strobe with any triggering method.

There's pros and cons to hypersync, HSS and ND filters - it's nice to have all the options

HSS does kill a hell of a lot of flash power though, if you try using HSS with a modifier like a small softbox or an Orbis you almost have to stick it up the subject's nose to get a decent amount of light

SJRobbins wrote in post #14505074
Personally I'd get a 2nd hand 550EX and some cheap triggers so you have the option of two flash HSS (550 as master) or two flashes off camera at 1/250. Could combine that with an off camera ttl cord for the 550 and have both off camera with HSS. The wireless still isn't amazing outside, but it is better than the built in 60D controller.

As for the gels, I wouldn't say the others are better quality - Rosco are well regarded. I have the strobist set and I just stick them to the flash with static, or stick them under the wide panel.

will the rosco gels cover up the flash well enough so that the light straight from the flash does not interfere with the color being thrown out?

Ratjack wrote in post #14505231
will the rosco gels cover up the flash well enough so that the light straight from the flash does not interfere with the color being thrown out?

They do for me on the fat headed 540/550 and the more svelte 565EX, there's a bit spare on either side even on the fat heads.

SJRobbins wrote in post #14505213
There's pros and cons to hypersync, HSS and ND filters - it's nice to have all the options

HSS does kill a hell of a lot of flash power though, if you try using HSS with a modifier like a small softbox or an Orbis you almost have to stick it up the subject's nose to get a decent amount of light

Ok, well my main plan is to be using umbrellas and soft boxes with my speedlites. I started to consider just spending the $200 extra for a 580ex II.... but now i'm thinking otherwise. I might just go ahead and get a 2nd 430ex II with the long ETTL cord (and perhaps some rf-602 triggers). This way if I ever NEED to use HSS then I can use the long cord with a single flash but otherwise can use both without HSS.

Do you use triggers with your 60D or do you just use the onboard controller?

Ratjack wrote in post #14505248
Ok, well my main plan is to be using umbrellas and soft boxes with my speedlites. I started to consider just spending the $200 extra for a 580ex II.... but now i'm thinking otherwise. I might just go ahead and get a 2nd 430ex II with the long ETTL cord (and perhaps some rf-602 triggers). This way if I ever NEED to use HSS then I can use the long cord with a single flash but otherwise can use both without HSS.

For the record my main flashes are:

* 2 x 550EX (ETTL master or slave)
* 1 x 565EX (ETTL slave or dumb slave)
* 1 x 540EZ (no wireless)

And for triggering I have:

* 3 x Syk-5 dumb optical triggers
* 1 x ETTL cable
* 3 x Ojecoco RF triggers (ETTL passthrough and hypersync support)

So I can use ND filters, Hypersync or HSS when facing bright ambient, and trigger using ETTL, dumb optical triggering or RF triggering, or a combination of the last two.

Then on top of that I have stands, shoot through brollies, large and small softboxes and an Orbis.

The whole lot probably cost me less than £500.

SJRobbins wrote in post #14505281
For the record my main flashes are:

* 2 x 550EX (ETTL master or slave)
* 1 x 565EX (ETTL slave or dumb slave)
* 1 x 540EZ (no wireless)

And for triggering I have:

* 3 x Syk-5 dumb optical triggers
* 1 x ETTL cable
* 3 x Ojecoco RF triggers (ETTL passthrough and hypersync support)

So I can use ND filters, Hypersync or HSS when facing bright ambient, and trigger using ETTL, dumb optical triggering or RF triggering, or a combination of the last two.

Then on top of that I have stands, shoot through brollies, large and small softboxes and an Orbis.

The whole lot probably cost me less than £500.

Ok, I now know of some things to look for. Thank you very much for helping me out here.

I appreciate everyone taking their time to help me out!!!!

Ratjack wrote in post #14505208
Can you link me to a good ND filter?

I'm not much of a filter expert so I'll have to leave that for someone else. Take a look at this thread:
https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1154254
Some of the contributors to that thread might be able to help.

Ratjack wrote in post #14505248
Ok, well my main plan is to be using umbrellas and soft boxes with my speedlites.

If you plan on using modifiers outdoors, you'll get a lot more bang for the buck with a studio strobe + battery inverter. This wasn't always the case, but today an Alienbees B1600 + Vagabond Mini Lithium power pack will give you several stops more power than a Speedlite or even a pair of Speedlites. Consider versatility and expandability and invest wisely.

Canon EX Speedlites are great tools, but they're terribly underpowered when blasting into a modifier outdoors.