I don't get sellers here...

So many people on this forum in business, or amateurs who occasionally sell their work. Tons of threads about making sure you protect your work from theft, expecting to get paid for the product you produce, time involved, get signed contracts that they expect the client to stick to, etc...

Yet whenever you open a FS thread, almost every single seller is violating the agreement they agreed to with Paypal. What I'm talking about is asking people to pay using a gift payment, and if not, then add 3% for PP fees.

And

Do people in the photography business routinely ask their clients for 3% more on the contract if they don't pay in cash? Isn't it a bit hypocritical to expect everyone you do business with to stick to their agreements with you, and for other companies to follow laws to the letter regarding copyrights if you can't follow a simple user agreement when getting paid for a sale?

I don't mean to start a flame war, but I am trying to understand the thinking about why everyone expects to be paid with a gift payment for goods, or to not include a 3% fee in their asking price, against the rules.

If you dont like the end total (or overall asking price) for the item being listed, dont buy it. Simple as that. A person can list their item for sale for whatever they want. The ones you are referring to are just breaking it down to show you more specifically why they are asking what they are asking. You can ask $100 for your item, plus shipping at $10 and 3% additional for PayPal fees or you can ask $113. Now whether or not to use a method such as PayPal Gift is an entirely different matter as there is some risk involved and thats a whole different topic for which there are already a number of threads on.

Gotta agree with the OP here, and this isn't the first time I've read people arguing that gift payment requests and charging more for paypal payments is perfectly ok.

Sorry guys, but it's not

Simply building into your selling price is fine......its the listings that say things like "add 3% if paying by PayPal" that are violating the TOS of PayPal as well as those that want payment as a gift.

The gift payment method can backfire as well. You have no PayPal protection for either the buyer or the seller in case there is a dispute over the goods sold because there isn't supposed to BE a sale if its a gift payment.

Don't buy from people you don't trust...

Simple

You would refuse to buy a lens for $100 + 3% for paypal fees?
But you'd buy a lens listed for $103 "everything included"?

Sounds pretty stupid to me...

ewheeler20 wrote in post #14547055
You would refuse to buy a lens for $100 + 3% for paypal fees?
But you'd buy a lens listed for $103 "everything included"?

Sounds pretty stupid to me...

I think his point is that many folks are looking to sue people for stealing from them, but have not problem doing it to PayPal.

how is asking for 3% for fees "stealing from PayPal?" paypal still gets 3% of the 103 dollars. (which is actually $3.09) it's not like paypal doesn't get a percentage if a seller asks for the fee separately in their ad. lol. I don't understand.

Ben_r, and FlyingPhotog, it's not about buying a used product or whether the price is an amazing one or way over priced. I am simply wondering how a group of people as a whole who seem to strive toward perfection and excellence in this hobby/profession, and who are sticklers for detail when it comes to their art, profession, contracts, property ownership, and "getting paid", blindly turn their nose at the rules when it suits them to keep a few bucks in their pockets and to "steal" from another company. (as Duane0524 put it)

As to my purchases, I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a product from someone here. My camera is a refurb, my newest lens is used, and the next few lenses will most likely be used as well.

<edit> ewheeler20, it is stealing because they are shipping a product and being asked to be paid as a "gift" which is against the Paypal agreement they agreed to. So if you send the money as a gift for the product, Paypal doesn't take the 3% and you have in essence stolen from them.

well of course if somebody sends the money as a gift, that is the buyers fault to do so if they also "agreed" to the seller to pay for paypal fees. I don't think I have ever seen anyone ask for 3% fees but also request to be paid by paypal gift...

and besides, it's up the buyer as to whether they pay using regular paypal or with paypal gift...

Do you have any problem with somebody asking for 3% fees if they are fine with being paid using regular paypal?

ewheeler20 wrote in post #14547084
how is asking for 3% for fees "stealing from PayPal?" paypal still gets 3% of the 103 dollars. (which is actually $3.09) it's not like paypal doesn't get a percentage if a seller asks for the fee separately in their ad. lol. I don't understand.

It is not asking for the 3%, it is the request for gift payment or 3%. You are using paypals service, so you should pay for it. I have no issue with offering a "cash" discount if someone does not use PayPal but if you do use them, pay their fee.

I still don't get it... are you bent out of shape because of semantics? Asking $103 or asking $100 + fees will equal the same amount to paypal, the seller and the buyer...

Ever hear of a buyer of a home having to pay "closing costs"... it's that or maybe the seller just budgets the closing costs into there overall amount for the home. SEMANTICS. Pay $300,000 for a house; everything included, or pay $290,000 plus 10,000 in closing costs...

ewheeler20 wrote in post #14547495
I still don't get it... are you bent out of shape because of semantics? Asking $103 or asking $100 + fees will equal the same amount to paypal, the seller and the buyer...

Ever hear of a buyer of a home having to pay "closing costs"... it's that or maybe the seller just budgets the closing costs into there overall amount for the home. SEMANTICS. Pay $300,000 for a house; everything included, or pay $290,000 plus 10,000 in closing costs...

I don't think I am being clear. I have no issue with either option you list, my issues asking for PayPal gift in one post and complaining about someone stealing their images in the next. My points, if you expect to be paid for your services, then PayPal should be paid for their services. PayPal does not charge any fees for a gift payment, but in your house example the bank is still getting their closing costs.

ewheeler20 wrote in post #14547495
I still don't get it... are you bent out of shape because of semantics? Asking $103 or asking $100 + fees will equal the same amount to paypal, the seller and the buyer...

Ever hear of a buyer of a home having to pay "closing costs"... it's that or maybe the seller just budgets the closing costs into there overall amount for the home. SEMANTICS. Pay $300,000 for a house; everything included, or pay $290,000 plus 10,000 in closing costs...

Did you even read the first post I made. I clearly quoted parts of their terms of service. Asking to be paid as a gift payment is against their ToS. It's a very simple concept. When you sell goods, you cannot ask for a "gift" payment. Likewise, if you tell someone that the cost is x and you then want the buyer to pay x amount extra for fees, that too is against the terms of service. I find it hypocritical for people to get up in arms about someone posting one of their pictures on a different Facebook account without permission, but these same people have no issue with wanting to scam a company out of $30.

And to answer your question, yes that is the term... When a seller says my asking price is $1,000 shipped when paid by gift payment, they are looking to scam the company out of their 2.9% cut.

Do you go to Target, WalMart, or any other retailer and have them tell you that your total is $100, then when you whip out your credit card, they tell you wait, that will now cost you $105? No, because those fees are built into their cost of doing business, and their agreements with the CC companies prohibit such tactics. Same with Paypal, in that you agree to not charge extra.

ewheeler20 wrote in post #14547084
how is asking for 3% for fees "stealing from PayPal?" paypal still gets 3% of the 103 dollars. (which is actually $3.09) it's not like paypal doesn't get a percentage if a seller asks for the fee separately in their ad. lol. I don't understand.

Its when you say "$100 unless you pay with paypal and then it's $103 to cover the PayPal fees"

That's the differernce.......not sure why its so hard to understand. You're charging people who pay with PayPal an additional fee to cover the transaction fees PayPal charges the seller.

Hard to believe this has to be explained so many times to people and they still dont get it......

this is one of those "acceptable" crimes in society. It seems minor until it happens to them. If you dont agree with the fees of paypal, dont use it.