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Thread started 07 Jun 2012 (Thursday) 19:46
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7D's inbuilt flash do I need the Speedlight 430 EX II

 
Submariner
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Jun 07, 2012 19:46 |  #1

Hi
I just ordered the 7D and a 70-300F4-5.6 L IS USM lens.
Do I need to lay out for the Speedlight 430 EXII?
Requirement:- Most of my photography is outdoors so wouldn't buy it this month (spent more than this month free money); except I need to be able to record the progress on the house renovation project.

This involves snapping all the defective work or areas that will be in the next phase. i.e. using my hobby 'toy' to save me time.
Once seemed like I was taking pics constantly for 2 hours, being a renovation site some areas are poorly lit, some OK ish, some unlit.

Q. Will one full battery charge do it? Any idea how many flash pictures a full battery will manage?
Q. Is there a limit re overheating of the inbuilt flash concerning number of flash pictures one can take in a minute? - I will not be using motor [continuous drive] only single shot.

Q. Or should I buy the plastic fantastic 50mm F1.8 - to give me better low light capability?
at £88 it's cheaper than the £200 flash plus can be used as a lens for the beach [Until it falls apart].

Any views appreciated - just didn't factor in how much it costs to switch manufacturer, different memory cards, lenses, spare batteries, new lens protector filters, card readers etc. etc.


Canon EOS 5DS R, Canon EF 70-200 F2.8 L Mk II IS USM, Canon EF 70-300 F4-5.6 L IS USM, EF 40mm F2.8 STM , RC6 Remote. Canon STE-3 Radio Flash Controller, Canon 600 EX RT x4 , YN 560 MkII x2 ; Bowens GM500PRO x4 , Bowens Remote Control. Bowens Pulsar TX, RX Radio Transmitter and Reciever Cards. Bowens Constant 530 Streamlights 600w x 4 Sold EOS 5D Mk III, 7D, EF 50mm F1.8, 430 EX Mk II, Bowens GM500Rs x4

  
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KrakenWakes
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Jun 07, 2012 22:23 |  #2

I don't think you'll need it, but I like the philosophy of doing more with less equipment. But if you're just shooting for record keeping, rather than for fine art, then the built in flash should do you ok for details. If you're looking to light a whole room, then you probably should just get a tripod.

I'm also ignoring the fact that a 70-300 on a crop sensor will leave you extremely cramped indoors.


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RobDickinson
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Jun 07, 2012 22:30 |  #3

You will get 400-500 shots with the flash, depending on flash power. On a new but properly charged battery (i.e. not first charge).

The onboard is Ok for documenting things, it will flatten the lighting and leave harsh shadows but it will certainly do the job.

As above 70mm is long for indoors but ok for detail work I guess. 50 isnt much wider either.


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johneo
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Jun 07, 2012 22:38 |  #4

Will the built in flash work on the 7D with the 70-300 lens? By work, I mean, if memory serves me, you'll only light the top and part of the left and right sides of the photo because the lens is long and will block out the light from the built in flash.

I may be thinking of the pop up flash and another lens on my crop cameras. Anybody know if this is true?


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RobDickinson
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Jun 07, 2012 22:41 |  #5

The lens could well block the light if the subject is close.


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KrakenWakes
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Jun 07, 2012 23:31 |  #6

RobDickinson wrote in post #14548061 (external link)
The lens could well block the light if the subject is close.

Oh yeah, I didn't even think of this. The 50mm 1.8 will probably solve most of your problems then. It won't be as wide as you might need, but f/1.8 and 7D's high ISO should be good.


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5x5 ­ photography
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Jun 08, 2012 00:45 |  #7

If it were me I would for sure buy the 430 EX II, use the flash pointed to the ceiling with a white bounce card fixed to the back of the flashes head and properly set up in M you will get well exposed quality images.


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Submariner
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Jun 08, 2012 12:26 as a reply to  @ 5x5 photography's post |  #8

Thanks for all the help guys.
Hmmm see what you mean about the lens blocking the flash.
Dilemna is I need a wider lens, but I'll have that covered withthe proposed next purchase which will be the Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II USM [provided I get good user feedback o it] as then I'm covered from 24 to 300 = 38mm to 480mm in old money, plus gives me Full-time manual override.
Hence my thoughts on the interim cheapo 50mm 1.8. as I was shocked there are no other cheapo 28 or 35mm lenses £320 - £570.

But appreciate the real world info on the battery charge and flash.
As ever what I need is both! But this month that not possible.


Canon EOS 5DS R, Canon EF 70-200 F2.8 L Mk II IS USM, Canon EF 70-300 F4-5.6 L IS USM, EF 40mm F2.8 STM , RC6 Remote. Canon STE-3 Radio Flash Controller, Canon 600 EX RT x4 , YN 560 MkII x2 ; Bowens GM500PRO x4 , Bowens Remote Control. Bowens Pulsar TX, RX Radio Transmitter and Reciever Cards. Bowens Constant 530 Streamlights 600w x 4 Sold EOS 5D Mk III, 7D, EF 50mm F1.8, 430 EX Mk II, Bowens GM500Rs x4

  
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johneo
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Jun 08, 2012 12:53 |  #9

Using the built in flash with the 24-70 will probably do the same as the 70-300. Think the 24-70 is as long as the 70-300 lens but it is a larger diameter.


2 - 5DMKII's, Powershot SX 150 IS
7D, 5D, IR/5D, 10D, IR/10D, Elan 7NE
17-40 L, 24-70 L, 70-200 f/2.8 L IS, 100-400 L IS,
TS-E 24 f/3.5 L, 28-135 IS (x2), 50 f/1.8, 85 f/1.8 550EX, 430EX
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amfoto1
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Jun 08, 2012 13:03 |  #10

I'd also recommend a separate flash. The flashes built into the cameras are pretty anemic at best, are in the worst place possible for redeye and ugly shadows, and put a heavy drain on the camera's battery. The 430EX II is just one possibility, tho it's a good one. There are smaller and larger flashes. And there are some good, third party flashes that might do.

The 24-70 will give you a bit more options than just the 70-300... However, if people are telling you tales about the 24-70 Mark II version, take them with a grain of salt. It's not on the market yet, won't be generally available until next month, if memory serves. So very few people have actually seen or used it. Maybe they are refering to the first version of the lens, which is quite good too. Both are very pricey, though... the new model will be substantially more expensive than the current one.

The 24-70, current version, has a very large lens hood that will definitely cast a shadow if using the camera's built in flash. It remains fixed and the lens barrel extends inside it, when zoomed to the 24mm end. The new Mark II version isn't going to be much better in that respect, it's lens hood is less deep, but it isn't any smaller in diameter, and the hood bayonets onto so extends along with the lens barrel when it's zoomed to the 70mm end of the range. (Just the opposite of the current version.)

You might want to take a look at the EF-S 17-55/2.8 IS. It's wider and the gap between 55mm and 70mm is pretty meaningless. As an EF-S lens, it's specifically designed for a crop camera such as the 7D, a bit smaller and lighter, and a lot less expensive tho far from inexpensive.... It offers high image quality and good, solid, mid-grade build. It's not an "L" (no EF-S lens ever will be, by definition), but it's build quality is "USM/Gold Stripe", which is Canon's mid-grade. It also would give you a truly wide angle of view. Not super wide or ultra wide, but decently wide. 24mm is not very wide at all on a crop camera, it's sort of a "slightly wide normal", at best.

The 17-55/2.8's lens hood (sold separately, since it's not an L-series) also would possibly obstruct the built in flash, depending upon how closely you are focused. Most lenses in this range will see this problem with a built in flash (the 28-135 does, too, I know from experience). Removing the lens hood temporarily will help, but in some cases won't entirely prevent the partial obstruction. So, ultimately a separate flash is in many ways the better solution... especially if you move it further off the lens axis with a flash bracket and an off-camera shoe cord. It makes for much nicer lighting, whether direct or bounced (which gobbles up a lot of the flash's output).

I use a 24-70, but complement it with a much wider zoom (12-24mm Tokina, in my case). Still, I thing the 17-55mm is well worth a look. It also has IS (24-70 doesn't)... not a feature I feel is essential on a wide to short tele lens like this, but nice to have when you can get it.

The 50/1.8 is a "short telephoto/portrait" lens on a 7D. For your purposes, you might be better served with a Canon 28/1.8 or Sigma 30/1.4. Those are more "normal/standard" lenses on a crop camera. Not really wide, but not really telephoto either. The Canon 35/2 is another option, but a bit long for a normal/standard.

My "go to" lens for architectural interiors, on a crop camera, is my Tokina 12-24/4. That's for broader view of rooms and such. There is some distortion, with such a wide lens. If your purpose is more to record details, you might use a longer focal length, but may need the lens to be reasonably close focusing.


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BaghdadFred
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Jun 08, 2012 13:04 |  #11

Don't use the the built in flash when using the 70-300L. I can report that you will certainly cause shadows on your photo. You can use a 50 1.8 and leave off the lens hood when shooting with the onboard flash. I've ran into this issue enough times with the 7d and learned my lesson.

If you have a microbudget for a flash I highly recommend the Yongnno Speedlight YN560. I own 4 of these now plus the Canon 580EX II. The cost is only 79 bucks. Keep in mind this is strictly a manual flash. However I would say that i use my 580EX II as a manual bounce flash about 90% of the time. Works great. The Canon flash just cycles significantly faster.


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Submariner
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Jun 09, 2012 10:17 as a reply to  @ BaghdadFred's post |  #12

Hi Guys
Thanks for the info in fact a big thanks, as as I contemplated your responses Canon has announced the EF 40mm F2.8 panacake [I pre-ordered at £229 can withdraw when it arrives.]

Good for me:-
1. very small ref storage [Short in my bag] and portability
2. More useful coverage on the 7D = 64mm i.e.closer to the std. 50mm on FF
3. Its a FF lens - so good for my future goal i.e. FF
4. Slightly better build quality has a metal mount
5. Alledgedly has goodish optics
6. STM motor = good for video [may have this feature on my replacement FF body in circa 2 years time]
7. The price is not crippling, and a reasonable balance until I can afford the 24-70 L
8. Apparently has 'Full-time Manual focus' - BUT not sure if this is only available on bodies that supports STM [need to call Canon to check].

So what do you gus think?
And then follow it up with a 430EXII Flash

Any views on taking a lot of pics with the onboard flash regarding overheating?


Canon EOS 5DS R, Canon EF 70-200 F2.8 L Mk II IS USM, Canon EF 70-300 F4-5.6 L IS USM, EF 40mm F2.8 STM , RC6 Remote. Canon STE-3 Radio Flash Controller, Canon 600 EX RT x4 , YN 560 MkII x2 ; Bowens GM500PRO x4 , Bowens Remote Control. Bowens Pulsar TX, RX Radio Transmitter and Reciever Cards. Bowens Constant 530 Streamlights 600w x 4 Sold EOS 5D Mk III, 7D, EF 50mm F1.8, 430 EX Mk II, Bowens GM500Rs x4

  
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7D's inbuilt flash do I need the Speedlight 430 EX II
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