Even 7D= NO outer focus points for faster than 2.8?

That's the way it appears, and I am shocked that even on this model only the center point is set to actually use a lens that is faster than 2.8. So with all the 85mm 1.8 portraits lenses out there, the 100mm F2, the 501.4 and 1.8, all the great, fast lenses out there.my Sigma 30 1,4, Canon still does not not a way to use the outer focus points for faster lenses with the same precision that they can use the center point?

Here is the quote from a review about the 7D, and it is the same with the 50D and 60D.

"Each and every point, including those located farthest from the center, is a standard-precision cross-type sensor, which can be used with any lens (or lens plus extender combination) with effective maximum apertures of f/5.6 or faster. Like the EOS 60D and 50D before that, the center AF point also has a separate, diagonal pair of high-precision line sensors, which provide even greater precision; these are automatically used with lenses f/2.8 or faster."

This clearly states that even on the 7D the outer points are NOT THE EQUIVALENT of the center point, and this sux because in portraiture I was hoping to upgrade to a 7D specifically so that i could use my 100mm F2 and my Sigma 30 1.4 with the outer focus points so that I would not have to focus and recompose.

So do you 7D owners out there use your outer focus points with faster than 2.8 lenses, and if it works just fine, why would any review or even Canon ever mention a difference in the center and outer points, since the difference matters not?

I'm saying that there must be a difference or they wouldn't make sure and spell out that the center point is set to function optimally with faster than 2.8 lenses and that the outer points are NOT THIS TYPE OF FOCUS POINT.

I am hoping you 7D owners can say "Hey, no problem, I focus with my fast lenses using the outer points and see not a bit of difference with them compared to using the center point, why, i don't even know why Canon would mention any difference because I have had zero difference with the center one compared to the outer ones"

I don't think you'll have to worry. I've used my sigma 30 1.4 & 85 1.8 with virtually all of the focus points and I don't recall ever having a problem. Of course your mileage may vary

Very interesting. I often use my 50mm f/1.4 on my 7D and have been coming to the conclusion from experience that the only reliable way to focus at around f/2 and under is to use the center point. I noticed the lens was frequently back-focusing whenever I used the outer ones.

Anyone else? It would be great to have confirmation of this.

I have not had any issues using the outer focus points to find/lock focus. Only time I've had issues is if it's very low-light and low contrast environment. So unless your like to shoot portraits in the dark (and I mean iso 6400, f/1.4 and 1/60s or slower low-light), you should be fine.

@Eric, you sure your 50/1.4 is microadjusted? I remember when I used to have my 50/1.4, it was front-focusing like nobody's business. It wouldn't be until I set it to f/2 that I started feeling like the images were acceptably sharp.

I have no problems using the outer points on my 7D with the 85L at 1.2.

I wouldn't worry i were you OP

Huh? The OP is concerned that the outer focus points won't work properly with lenses faster than 2.8? Then he directly quotes the manual, which states that "each and every" focus point works with any lens faster than 5.6. 2.8 is faster than 5.6, as are the 1.4 and 1.8 lenses that he is worried about. The only thing that doesn't work with lenses slower than 2.8 are the additional sensors at the center point. I think that this is simply a matter of misunderstanding what the manual says.

hmm...so I guess my question is, what other canon cameras have high precision AF points that are not the center?

If I read this article correctly, the 5DmkIII and the 1DX only have their high precision f/2.8 AF points in the center. They have other high precision points that are f/4, but I believe that's only horizontal (not cross type high precision @ f/4).

It kinda sounds to me like you're assuming "high precision" AF point = the only one that "works". At least all of the AF points are cross type. I don't think (could be wrong), the outer AF points on the 5DmkII were cross type...only the center one was?

I don't really want a start a war by asking this, but what about Nikon or Sony? What are their AF points like?

Maybe it's a not a canon problem, but a physics problem? They still haven't spread out the AF points that much in full frame cameras (big space at the edges).

pknight wrote in post #14554104
Huh? The OP is concerned that the outer focus points won't work properly with lenses faster than 2.8? Then he directly quotes the manual, which states that "each and every" focus point works with any lens faster than 5.6. 2.8 is faster than 5.6, as are the 1.4 and 1.8 lenses that he is worried about. The only thing that doesn't work with lenses slower than 2.8 are the additional sensors at the center point. I think that this is simply a matter of misunderstanding what the manual says.

You have misunderstood the OP. He is complaining that only the centre point has the high precision focus points that require f/2.8 to activate the extra diagonal sensor.

Yes, of course the other points all work properly at f/2.8, and any other aperture of f/5.6 or faster, but they don't have the diagonal extra precision sensor that only works at f/2.8 or faster. That is what the OP wants on the outer points.

ohata0 wrote in post #14554115
hmm...so I guess my question is, what other canon cameras have high precision AF points that are not the center?

If I read this article correctly, the 5DmkIII and the 1DX only have their high precision f/2.8 AF points in the center. They have other high precision points that are f/4, but I believe that's only horizontal (not cross type high precision @ f/4).

It kinda sounds to me like you're assuming "high precision" AF point = the only one that "works". At least all of the AF points are cross type. I don't think (could be wrong), the outer AF points on the 5DmkII were cross type...only the center one was?

I don't really want a start a war by asking this, but what about Nikon or Sony? What are their AF points like?

Maybe it's a not a canon problem, but a physics problem? They still haven't spread out the AF points that much in full frame cameras (big space at the edges).

The Nikon top of the line only has cross types in the centre, couldn't find info on which were 2.8 higher precision though.

http://www.dpreview.co​m …14638/nikon-d4-overview/3

Is the glass half empty, or is it half full?

If you ever used a 5DII or 5D original, or many of the Rebel/xxxD and earlier xxD models, you'd find the dual axis AF point at the center only... all others are single axis and noticeably slower to focus with any lens, more-so with slower lenses (smaller max aperture) and non-USM lenses.

xxD cameras from 40D on have all 9 points cross type, and the center one further enhanced (diagonal cross type, with f2.8 and faster lenses). 1D series with 45 points have 19 cross type, and the center one further enhanced. The 7D has all 19 points cross type, and the center one further enhanced. The new 61 point system on 5DIII and 1DX, I'm just not familiar with enough yet to comment... maybe someone else can give info.

But there is more to it than just the AF points themselves. The 7D also has a dedicated AF processing chip, same as the 1D series. This speeds up AF and helps with accuracy with all AF points, as well as assisting with the multi-point modes, AI Servo tracking, a special macro AI Servo mode, and some more.

Using the outer AF points on 7D is very little different from using the center one, though there is still some minor difference... You will probably not notice it in other than really challenging lighting/targeting situations, and even then it will just be a slight difference.

It's not like 5D/5DII, where you often really notice the difference between the center point and all the others. And even those are still perfectly usable, especially for sedate subjects like portraits... just slower to lock on.

Micro Focus Adjust feature is another factor, to really dial in the accuracy of your lenses' focus. 7D has it, as does 50D and 5DII/III... 60D and 40D don't have it, nor do any of the Rebel/xxxD models.

If you really, really need to use the diagonal cross type sensor that's only at the center on all the cameras, just focus and recompose. No big deal.

Or use Live View, which is slow but even more accurate (contrast detect vs phase detect) and allows equally accurate AF from anywherein image area.

easiest explanation for the 1Dx/5Diii:

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guitarjeff wrote in post #14553128
I am hoping you 7D owners can say "Hey, no problem, I focus with my fast lenses using the outer points and see not a bit of difference with them compared to using the center point, why, i don't even know why Canon would mention any difference because I have had zero difference with the center one compared to the outer ones"

Jeff, the outermost focus point on the 7D is at least equal in quality to the center point on your 450D.

ohata0 wrote in post #14554115
Maybe it's a not a canon problem, but a physics problem? They still haven't spread out the AF points that much in full frame cameras (big space at the edges).

It's physics.

sandpiper wrote in post #14554236
Yes, of course the other points all work properly at f/2.8, and any other aperture of f/5.6 or faster, but they don't have the diagonal extra precision sensor that only works at f/2.8 or faster. That is what the OP wants on the outer points.

We only have what is typed above to go by, but it appears to me that the OP does not really understand what a high precision AF point is and therefore cannot know what they want.

So it appears I will have no trouble with my fast lenses using the outer points, and that's great news.

Now, after finding out the 50D and 60D have 9 cross type points, I may not need to ugrade all the way to the 7D. I may look for a refurb 50D so I can have MFA and also 9 cross points. I have never had trouble with 9 points taking portraits, just the fact that the outer ones were not cross type. So maybe the 7D will be overkill and the 50D would be the way to go. Only problem I see would be finding a 50D body that's new or refurbed since it is quite old. I don't want a used one.

Anyway, I'm glad to know I have nothing to worry about with outer points on these bodies using my faster lenses. Now I have to decide which one to upgrade to next month.