Have found the back up battery,pulled it out for a few minutes and replaced both the back up battery and a fully charged main battery without success so I have pulled all batteries out for the night and will try again in the morning. By the way how do you suugest I "short" the back up battery? Thanks again for your help and will try again in the morning.

, if you are in the uk i can send you there address there in luton and you can mail it to them as well instead of going there if it helps

