60D flash units

MakisM1 wrote in post #14570385
You can search 'Flash Trigger Voltage' in the Internet. I don't think it is a Canon scam, but the tests of what is safe and what is not show widely varying results.

Your Kalimar 171 is reported by somebody to put 238V across the terminals. I sincerely doubt this... But I am not willing to risk my camera on a $10 flash. Anyway, I use the more sophisticated E-TTL/Wireless Controler all the time and for those I need the latest generation Canon EX/EXII

http://www.botzilla.co​m/photo/strobeVolts.ht​ml

The voltage very well may be 238 at the terminals, WHERE THE FLASH TUBE HOOKS TO THE INTERNAL ELECTRONICS. That circuit is NOT connected to the hot shoe contact, which only serves to tell the flash unit to fire. It could be 72 zillion volts. It can't hurt your camera. I guess I should be happy that so many people buy into this (mostly) myth. It makes old flash units really cheap for those of us who realize you really can use them. I say mostly because I am sure there must be some hot-shoe flashes out there that CAN hurt your camera. As long as the one you are contemplating only has one contact on the shoe, it cannot possibly do any damage to your camera. The worst that can happen is that it won't go off when you hit the shutter.

As long as the one you are contemplating only has one contact on the shoe, it cannot possibly do any damage to your camera.

And what do I do with my Speedlight 380EX that has 5 contacts?

Sambarino, Do you suppose that the camera's of the 1970's actually still used a microswitch to trigger the flash, or do you think they used a transistor based circuit within the camera to get the necessary timing for the focal plane shutter? Where might you get the power from? well the flash has quite a bit floating about, maybe even as much as nearly 300V. Well that's ok then we can us the power from the flash it's self to trigger the flash, but wait isn't 300V a lot more than you need? Yes but we will allow for that in the design of the camera electronics, so that it can withstand having a potential 300V @ maybe 500mA floating around, that's only 150W.
Roll on 35 years or so. Cameras all now have much more sophisticated electronics in them, and are capable of communicating in much cleverer ways then before, but just so they will still enable the centre contact to just trigger a dumb flash. Thing is that now the electronics components cannot cope with voltages in the region of 300V this causes the transistors in the chips to break down, not to mention the 500mA 150W which again is more than the modern electronics can withstand. The thing is we have only designed the camera to operate with our new flash units that because the communicate digitally for the most part only use the low voltages that are commonly seen in modern electronics.
By the way even though the old hot shoes had only "one" contact in the middle it is surrounded by an insulator for a reason, even now the mount it's self is used as the return for all the voltages that pass between the camera and hot shoe. look at any of the old flash guns (or even a modern one) and you will see the second contact in the grove where the flange of the hot shoe sits when the flash is mounted on the camera. Any connection that involves the passing of an electronic signal needs to have two connectors. Of course we are lucky in that anything electronic can be connected to a big metal spike stuck in the ground/earth (In this case I really am referring to the planet earth), which will allow you to send signal between the two using only one actual connecting wire. This is funnily enough referred to as Ground or Earth depending on where in the world you are.
Please note that I have not studied the way that flash systems are triggered by camera's, what I have suggested is summation on my part based on what I know of electronic systems, and how I would design things, given the way these things seemed to have developed.
What I do know is that there is enough consistent information, and from some apparently reliable sources that says the old 70's vintage flash guns often develop up to 300V across the terminals. I also know that applying 300V across a modern IC chip is going to cause the transistors in the chip to fail, especially where they are designed to work at around 6V. That 300V doesn't even need to produce any more power to do the damge.

Alan

sambarino wrote in post #14572371
The voltage very well may be 238 at the terminals, WHERE THE FLASH TUBE HOOKS TO THE INTERNAL ELECTRONICS...

You keep insisting on conspiracy theories (promulgated by Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax and every other camera manufacturer under the sun...)based on your own interpretation of things! Let's not forget that a cirquit needs to close for something to happen. So, there is not one contact and you are OK...

Here is the quote from the site I referred you to.

Some strobes (and infrared strobe triggers) use high voltages in the trigger circuit. For mechanical cameras, this is fine — but many newer, electronically-driven cameras (especially electronic 35mm SLRs like the EOS or digicams — or for that matter, EOS digicams, like the 300D) can be damaged by excessive strobe voltages.
How much is too much? What voltage might my own strobe generate? This page tries to help answer those questions. It contains a table of strobe trigger voltages, a few measured by myself but most contributed by readers of this site. It also contains some information about specific camera makes and the strobes that light them.
Cameras

Canon US has verified (to me, and here) that the Powershot G doesn't like voltages over 6V.
Similarly, Nikon has specified 12V for their speedlight circuits... (though reader Steve Francesoni called Nikon.uk to check, and their tech rep said that his N80 was good to 250V — so there may be more complexity to this story). I've heard some rumours that some Coolpix models have been restricted to 5V! (see below for more details)
Marco Fortin-Metzgen checked with Olympus Europe on his C4040 — that digicam has a trigger voltage of 10V, so Olympus too recommends strobe triggering in the 3V to 6V range.
Pentax users may want to read this related story from Gene Poon.
Ron Alexander claims his Fuji is astonishingly tolerant of high voltages... interesting (This has since been verified by Rob Scrimgeour of the FujiGroup.net forum — their members got a message from Fuji also stating the 400V center pin limit).
(According to some opinions, high voltages can even endanger mechanical cameras, albeit after years of use)
The ISO 10330 specification ("Photography -- Synchronizers, ignition circuits and connectors for cameras and photoflash units -- Electrical characteristics and test methods," 1992) says that all ISO-compliant cameras should be able to accept trigger voltages up to 24V. Though a Canon engineer is the nominal head of the ISO workgroup, for some reason Canon continues to insist that their cameras tolerate no more than 6V (make that Canon USA — an email from Canon Canada says: "There is not a maximum voltage requirement for the hot shoe terminal on the PowerShot G1." Go fig!). For that reason I've tagged strobes that trigger at voltages between 6V and 24V as "your call." Depending upon who you ask — the camera or strobe manufacturers — those strobes are acceptable or they are not.
The ISO spec doesn't really seem to hold a lot of weight!

You are entitled to your opinion and how to manage your camera.


Others may form a different opinion.

Soource: http://www.botzilla.co​m/photo/strobeVolts.ht​ml

does anybody know if 430EX (not EXii) works with 60D's wireless flash control?

i dont know for certain but the manual says it does work wirelessly
http://gdlp01.c-wss.com …eedlite430ex-en-es-fr.pdf
switch to slave
page 24 - seems to indicate it should - same as my 550EX instructions , which works really well

can you try it or make it a condition of the buy

430EX introduced Aug 22, 2005
The Speedlite 550EX introduced September 1998

To the OP...

Get yourself a 430EX mark II. It's guaranteed to work fine with your camera and it will work as a slave to the pop up flash, provided you set the menu options correctly. See the tutorial in my signature link for more information about using Canon's wireless flash system.

Shutterwolf wrote in post #14571004
Check ebay. I got lucky and found a 550EX here and snagged it for a good price, but I went there to find one to show a friend, and found out they go really cheap there sometimes. Considering getting one as a slave flash if I ever have the need for it. Still don't know where it would come in handy for what I do though.

I don't have a 60D but reading this thread it seems you cannot control a "C" group from a 60D body - So if that is something you would want to do, then using a 550 EX could come in handy since it can act as a "master" and control a "C" group. Either used on camera, or with an e-ttl cord.

For most camera owners however, having the use of a "C" group isn't that important and with the EX flash units used as "slaves", (not EX II) I believe that and "A" or "B" group flash can be controlled by changing the distance to the subject (assuming you have more than one flash in the same group). In essence that would be similar to having a "C" group.

I use a "C" group flash often for portraits since I can crank up the flash exposure and use it as a strong "spill" light (or as most call it here, a "hair" or "back" light - same with a "background" light depending on suitability.

Really not a subject for this forum - should be under "small flash and studio lights".

BTW, someone mentioned the guide numbers of the 550 EX - all of the models power can be compared easily by the model number at equal settings - the 580 has a GN of 58, the 550 is 55, the 430 is 43, 420 is 42, 380 is 38, 270 is 27, etc...so the 550 EX is very close to either of the 580 units (EX or EX II).

A 580 or 550 will fill in harsh shadows in bright sunlight from a pretty good distance...(something I use them for often). They are amazingly powerful for a battery operated portable strobe.

Peace,
D.

I have a 60D and a 5D3 and have used a Canon 580EX II, a Nissin Di866 and a Nissin Di622 flashgun on both of them. The Nissin Di866 is very similar in power and features to the Canon 580EX II but is less than 2/3 of the price. In the UK typical prices are £325 for the 580, £200 for the Di866 and £100 for the Di622 and both of the Nissin's are excellent on both cameras.

sambarino wrote in post #14572371
........ As long as the one you are contemplating only has one contact on the shoe, it cannot possibly do any damage to your camera...........

Show me a flash with only one contact and I'll show you a miracle