Copyrights, work for hire should I sign or not

in 2012 Lady running Wedding business asked me for help.... small beach weddings, 1-2 hours jobs. She paid me, we never sign any papers or anything, I was giving her DVD with all JPGs and I had no problem what is she doing with them and if she is selling prints or whatever, fine with me... Not very ambitious pictures, some are good some are not....

in 2011 She asked me If I can help even more... in 2012 she gave me 3 weddings, but in 2011 she gave me 18 weddings. She paid but one more time we had no agreement, I was giving her CD with pictures and it said do whatever you want to....

She got very excited, people liked my pictures, she gained A LOT of business, she charged pretty good money for my service, I was getting 60% of what she charged couples. She asked if I want to work with here again in 2012, I said yes why not. She gave me 18 weddings again.... All those weddings are "summer time weddings" so between the seasons, I started to advertise my own wedding service. She new about it, she never had anything against, but soon when she noticed that I booked some more ambitious weddings, bigger weddings (3 weddings this year) she started to act weird... she said that I have no rights to the pictures I use in advertising. I said that I'm an author and we didn't have any agreement or anything...s he replied that I should know that I work for her as her employee and she hired me, not my photo company and I can't use any pictures to advertise my wedding business.

She gave me an ultimatum or I work for her and only for her, or I can go on my own and book weddings. She gave me a papaer, kind of Work-for-hire agreement saying that i'm loosing all copyrights to pictures I took at her weddings... There is no dates, there is only today date. I understand that Agreement starts from the date I sign.

Also she gave me a paper saying that I'm giving up ALL copyright to pictures taken for her in 2010 and 2011.

Ok someone please tell me what should I do... If I sign both papers then I have weddings for this year. It is few thousand dollars... I don't know if she will give me any weddings in 2013, she said of course and I'm her main photographer - she is paying me the most if you compare to few other photographers and I'm the biggest "advertising" for her business, she is a pastor and she offers Pastor and photographer for beach wedding in affordable price. Not that I'm trying to be smart ass but I'm the only photographer with some skills I'm the only professional photographer she work with.

If I refuse sign the paper... I'm loosing all weddings and future work opportunity. Each year I make $2500-$4500 and I don't believe I will ever make more serving her weddings, those are cheap, beach weddings...

I have some pretty good pictures taken in previous years, and I use those pictures to advertise my business, It's not easy I booked 3 wedding this year and this is probably all I'll get... next year I may book more but also it's not easy here where I live so If I can make $3000 next year booking my own weddings I'll be lucky....

However... you never know what future can bring....

If I Sign papers I don't have any good pictures to advertise my business and My portfolio will be only 3 wedding that I booked on my own....


What Should I do ??

Reverse negotiate for the right to show for advertising purposes and a rate which is commensurate with surrendering your copyrights.

She has to be made to understand that what she's asking is unusual and it comes with a price.

I got a little confused about the number of jobs you got from her. It is 18 last year, 3 promised this year? Or is it 18 in both years?

And in 2011, she paid you a total of what? $2,500 or $4,500?

For the three weddings you booked yourself, do you have to give those up?

In the agreement, are you prevented from booking weddings yourself?

yeee but If I ask her for money, ti's like not signing the paper, if she pay and I sign she may say no more weddings.... and I loose copyright and weddings... however I may make some cash...

There is nothing about me booking wedding on my own.... However this is very small town and if I start booking I will not get anything from her. Agreement is saying that she didn't promise me any weddings and can't guarantee that I will have weddings at all in 2012. She booked my service fro 18 weddings in 2012 and If I sign I have no pictures to use in my advertising....

How is that work for hire works ?? Cuz I can refuse to sign and then she can't use my pictures right ? 99.9% of her advertising is based on my pictures.... so if there was no agreement before, she has no right to my pictures ? or she still can use them ? There was cash exchange

I did 18 weddings in 2011 and 3 weddings in 2010

I booked 3 weddings on my own for 2012. No I don't have to give up those weddings if I sign the paper.

There was no W-2, she gave me misc cash form or whatever this is called. I know nothing about taxes, I'm dropping my papers off at the office and they taking care of everything As far I know the paper she gave me was to show IRX that she paid me that much cash. I gave my copy to my tax people and they used this in my tax work....

How this is work ? If I refuse to sign and finish relationship can she use my pictures ?? Or can I say no no.... you not allowed to use my work....

Once you sign those releases there's no guarantee that she will continue to have you work for her. IMO, I think she wants you to sign so that she can fire you and you won't be able to use the images you took while shooting with her. I would probably recommend to not sign the forms restricting any work you've done in the past, and you can decide if you want to sign an agreement to be restricted from using photos taken on future jobs with her.

Don't sign. You are getting 18 weddings and making $4500? That's $250/wedding. If you don't sign, you have all rights to all images and she has none.

If they are good enough for her to book you, they are good enough for you to book you.

You got paid $4500 for 18 two hour weddings? If we assume each wedding takes 6 hours including travel and processing that's $40/hr, not bad but not great either given you have to give up your saturdays.

If you can book weddings yourself at a better rate, do it. If you can't, then don't.

Thomas Campbell wrote in post #14637133
Don't sign. You are getting 18 weddings and making $4500? That's $250/wedding. If you don't sign, you have all rights to all images and she has none.

In the first post you said, "we never sign any papers or anything", so she can't use any of the images because you hold the © & have never given her the "Rights" to use them in writing. "Work for Hire" does not apply in the US without a contract specifically giving up your rights.

If it is your intention to build your own business and independent reputation, you have to walk away.

Thank you guys for great advice!

money are not great but weddings are also not very fancy. Sometimes it was $100 per hour sometimes it was $400 per hour, Beach ceremony, beach pictures, nothing really big, most of the time it was couple only etc. However I have at least few pretty cool pictures and I know I can use those pictures in the future. I'm not trying to be an ass and I'm looking for good solution. I decided to NOT sign copyright transfer papers and I'll talk to her about the work for hire agreement and we can work something out.... if she is normal she will try to deal with me... I'm wondering what she is going to do with weddings that are already booked, couples picked specifically me after checking 5 portfolios and paid price for my service, all photographer has different price.

good choice. don't sign. do your own bookings.

she needs you more than you need her. without your photos she would have nothing to show for her business

SillyGuy wrote in post #14638291
she needs you more than you need her. without your photos she would have nothing to show for her business

The only thing I'm going to say is to repeat this, which is the most important thing for you to remember in your negotiations.