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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk 
Thread started 02 Jul 2012 (Monday) 16:27
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ajaffe
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Jul 03, 2012 14:20 |  #16

laxlife1234 wrote in post #14664360 (external link)
I already did as they liked the pictures or so I was told. They even said that I was much better than the last photography service they had (Island photography... sorry if they're on here but they're horrid).

The AF on the 5D didn't really let me take good shots as the people tended to move too fast for me to capture them. I have a 1D3 now though so I'll be able to use faster AF.

I shoot for numerous teams at this level and have done so for a couple of years now. If you don't want to take my advice then so be it. All I can tell you is that you have to add a value beyond just the photographs. You have to constantly ask yourself, what can this photo be used for? If it is for posting on your website for people to look at only, then you are shortchanging yourself and will quickly become expendable should their wallets shrink.

With that said, I looked over your gallery at all 100+ images, and out of that set many are simply unusable. Either cropped too loosely, cropped/framed oddly, backs of players, and missed peak action. Personally I am not satisfied even if my clients are happy, I want to achieve perfection each and every shot, which admittedly never happens.


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bigjon0107
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Jul 03, 2012 17:08 |  #17

laxlife1234 wrote in post #14664360 (external link)
They even said that I was much better than the last photography service they had (XXXXXX photography... sorry if they're on here but they're horrid).

To the OP, this is somewhat off topic, so I apologize in advance.

I would HIGHLY recommend not calling other companies out on this forum. The SEO here is very good and posts do show up with you goole names. Make an effort to develop relationships with all pro shooters in your area and do not burn bridges. The professional sports shooter industry is a very very close nit group. Bad news travels fast if you bash others. Plus, like you will see mentioned here plenty of times, making money shooting is 80% business 20% shooting. They very easily could still be getting gigs, and referring clients to others...with a ruff attitude towards them you won't get any of those referrals.


Jon Eilts
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Dan-o
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Jul 03, 2012 18:26 |  #18

Jon makes a very good point and I have said the same thing many times. I'm traveling up to San Fransisco to shoot an event this weekend and when another photographer hear I was coming passed a client on to me because he can't make the event.

Listen to ajaffe on this, he is right on. you can take offense or learn from it.


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laxlife1234
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Jul 03, 2012 18:49 |  #19

ajaffe wrote in post #14666082 (external link)
I shoot for numerous teams at this level and have done so for a couple of years now. If you don't want to take my advice then so be it. All I can tell you is that you have to add a value beyond just the photographs. You have to constantly ask yourself, what can this photo be used for? If it is for posting on your website for people to look at only, then you are shortchanging yourself and will quickly become expendable should their wallets shrink.

With that said, I looked over your gallery at all 100+ images, and out of that set many are simply unusable. Either cropped too loosely, cropped/framed oddly, backs of players, and missed peak action. Personally I am not satisfied even if my clients are happy, I want to achieve perfection each and every shot, which admittedly never happens.

If I sounded like I didn't want to take your advice, I apoligize. I am definitely taking everyones advice and POV's as well. Trust me, I definitely wouldn't use any of the images I took that game in my portfolio for sports, if I didn't say it already it was my first real soccer game I shot. I can say I was ill-equipped as well as I had to shoot center point AF on a 5Dc, even though I was shooting in AI-Servo, focus was still very slow. To be honest, the 70-200 I used for a bunch of shots on the 5Dc was as slow as my 50L on my 1D3 so I can only imagine how fast the 70-200 is on the 1D3. The shots that would have came out nicely if I used a better camera were all blurry because the AF was like I said, way too slow to keep up with the action.

Even though I personally don't think the photos are near what they should be, the owner likes them so I'm happy he at least can use some. I'm not going to try to work something out with him now that he replied to me and explian that I can give much better quality work now that I have better equipped gear for shooting sports. Because I'm used to shooting portraits though I'm used to the ease of getting the shot, I never thought soccer would be all that challenging but I realized it is, so for now I can only hope to keep improving.




  
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laxlife1234
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Jul 03, 2012 18:52 |  #20

bigjon0107 wrote in post #14666761 (external link)
To the OP, this is somewhat off topic, so I apologize in advance.

I would HIGHLY recommend not calling other companies out on this forum. The SEO here is very good and posts do show up with you goole names. Make an effort to develop relationships with all pro shooters in your area and do not burn bridges. The professional sports shooter industry is a very very close nit group. Bad news travels fast if you bash others. Plus, like you will see mentioned here plenty of times, making money shooting is 80% business 20% shooting. They very easily could still be getting gigs, and referring clients to others...with a ruff attitude towards them you won't get any of those referrals.

Dan-o wrote in post #14667010 (external link)
Jon makes a very good point and I have said the same thing many times. I'm traveling up to San Fransisco to shoot an event this weekend and when another photographer hear I was coming passed a client on to me because he can't make the event.

Listen to ajaffe on this, he is right on. you can take offense or learn from it.

No need to apologize :) Thank's for the heads up and now that you pointed it out I edited it. I do want to say that they are a well known company so it's probably best not to speak bad about them but I've personally been a client of them so I know the type of quality they present.




  
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ajaffe
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Jul 04, 2012 10:35 |  #21

laxlife1234 wrote in post #14667097 (external link)
If I sounded like I didn't want to take your advice, I apoligize. I am definitely taking everyones advice and POV's as well. Trust me, I definitely wouldn't use any of the images I took that game in my portfolio for sports, if I didn't say it already it was my first real soccer game I shot. I can say I was ill-equipped as well as I had to shoot center point AF on a 5Dc, even though I was shooting in AI-Servo, focus was still very slow. To be honest, the 70-200 I used for a bunch of shots on the 5Dc was as slow as my 50L on my 1D3 so I can only imagine how fast the 70-200 is on the 1D3. The shots that would have came out nicely if I used a better camera were all blurry because the AF was like I said, way too slow to keep up with the action.

Even though I personally don't think the photos are near what they should be, the owner likes them so I'm happy he at least can use some. I'm not going to try to work something out with him now that he replied to me and explian that I can give much better quality work now that I have better equipped gear for shooting sports. Because I'm used to shooting portraits though I'm used to the ease of getting the shot, I never thought soccer would be all that challenging but I realized it is, so for now I can only hope to keep improving.

I have never used a camera that forced me to shoot loose and not be able to crop or force me to shoot the backs of players or force me to miss my timing. I don't understand how gear relates to the equation since you posted over 100 images, of which many fit the above, that gear has no bearing on. If you missed some great shots, unlucky, but don't post something mediocre to substitute. Give them less higher quality stuff than more mediocre quality stuff, if that makes sense. I am not saying you stink or anything, I am just giving you some honest feedback that will make the people employing you say, "wow", and help create separation between you and the next guy/gal with a camera.

These are the things you have to pay notice to if you are stepping into the professional realm. You have to be your own worst critic, not just your own loudest cheerleader.


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bigjon0107
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Jul 04, 2012 11:29 |  #22

ajaffe wrote in post #14669585 (external link)
These are the things you have to pay notice to if you are stepping into the professional realm. You have to be your own worst critic, not just your own loudest cheerleader.


All of the critiques have been spot on. Loose images, poorly timed, wrong angles, etc... The reason I just quoted the last sentence is because that is probably the most important thing you need to pay attention to. YOU need to be a very harsh critic of yourself. You always need to make sure your standards are higher then your clients and that you can achieve them no matter what. Typically you find out you haven't been doing a good enough job when you are replaced...no more progress reports like you had in high school, it is pass or fail. All the excuses about having the wrong camera, not a long enough lens, etc... need to go away.

Everything boils down to have you provided a quality product or not. Clients don't know (or care) if you "had" to shoot with a 5DII (still a very capable camera for sports if you know the strengths and weakness btw) they just know if the delivered product is good or bad.

Chances are you may have a little more leeway with this client due to your relationship, but take what I said as more of a general statement as you become a professional.


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