Live View on a 7D is it useable? or just a marketing tick-list feature? Or am I missi

This isn’t a 7D bashing thread, I just genuinely want to know if I’m missing out on how this feature works ( i.e. my misunderstanding) and are there any benefits at all?
Or was it just put there because other camera brands have it! So to score the right results in the reviews Canon just threw in anything one could call Live View.

Perhaps Live View was a nice feature in 2008 (personally I could not comment as I didn’t have a DSLR then) , but as I have had a Sony A77 this Canon utility looks like a pile of slow, technically flawed, outdated junk in comparison.
But then as it’s all very new; I am therefore extremely interested to make sure I’m not missing out on some perfect panacea. Conversely, if it is what I suspect, I’d rather know the truth before wasting time researching manuals and countless videos. And just reach for the Cybershot and get the job done properly.

My Experience of the Live View feature is summarised below.

My understanding is there are 4 live view modes:-
1. In Live View AF. It can autofocus, which is based on where the magnifying rectangle is. But it works like a snail, is very imprecise (big Rectangle) and seems to take an age for the shutter to complete; and has big problems in low light and is a definite ‘no-no’ for moving objects.
Verdict: Useless
2. AF Face detection. You get a broken Rectangle and it will lock onto a face, or mistake an object for a face, and has difficulties if the object moves quickly, or is too small, or you have low light
Verdict: Almost useless
3. AF Quick Mode. You seem to be able to get all the good Quick view options and can pick an Autofocus point. But sadly every time you want to focus, the mirror comes down cuts off the image and focuses. Then you can take the picture, but the shutter takes an age to operate. It’s also very likely that one will move as the image disappears, but it does at least confirm to you that you have missed the focus with the red rectangle.
Verdict : Very clunky not worth having.
4. Manual Focus mode. Here you can move the rectangle to where you want and magnify it to check you have a good AF lock. Nice so far, then it’s all downhill. Once you have a sharp image then you have to depress the shutter 1/2 ; and then it will AF. But then you have to remember to reduce the magnified image size or risk poor AF, and then take the shot. So just when it started to look feasible, we are confronted by the jumping into a ‘blind alley’ scenario, and then having to de-magnify your focused, ‘enlarged’, image or risk a poor IQ photo.
At first it looked like it might add something useful to the Canon kit bag. But then lets itself down badly. It too seemed much slower than non Live View mode!
Verdict :Really can’t see a benefit.

So what have I missed – or is it just, that I’ve been spoilt rotten with the A77’s lightning fast AF, razor sharp focusing, superb advanced technology allowing one to see everything on the screen or view-finder that the human eye can, and more! Plus the colour rendition is ace, and things like focus peaking (optionally outlining in user-defined colours, in real time, everything in focus) OK now that is what I call a loverly feature: sexy and useful. Likewise the SLT mirror means it is all ‘live view’ and hence is far better equipped to work in todays digital imaging environment.

One question when one goes into Live View mode and then selects Quick AF, why do they retain the magnified sensor outline?
If one has selected to use Quick AF focus? i.e. one can have the magnified rectangle in a different place from the actual selected AF point. Q. Am I right, will it focus where the AF Quick mode AF-crosspoints are?
And is the ‘magnified rectangle’ just to help users remember where the AF will be, proviided you manually moved it to where the Quick AF crosshairs are?

Any views – tips or advice on features and what they can offer much appreciated.
Likewise no politically correct answers please – if it’s a waste of space do let me know so I don’t waste my time reading manuals, to try and get something out of nothing.

Live view is great for composing landscapes... I use it a lot for product photography.... for shooting at night...

One common trend with all of those: The camera is on a tripod.

Live view is great for what it was designed for. However, if you think you're going to hand-hold your camera and use Live View, turning your camera into a $1300 point and shoot, you're going to be very disappointed.

Live view is great for macro photos too when you use the manual focus on a tripod

it's a known fact that sony has a better understanding of their video system line up in their consumer and prosumer line. When it comes to shooting video at the consumer level, sony is ahead of canon and nikon. Where sony falls flat on their face is the inability to resolve detail in terms of their sensor use. They dumb down their sensor so much that detail is smeared compared to the canon and nikon equivalents. To add insult to injury, sony markets "if it has more megapixels it's a better camera" approach; largely to confuse consumers.

so yes, sony's live view is better, however canon is very much useable

There is certainly one thing you're missing, on your point 4: manual AF. When you do what you describe, you're not focusing manually. The point of that option is when the camera is on a tripod and the subject is not moving, then you can zoom in to the live view image and focus manually to get it really precise. If you use AF in this mode you are throwing away the advantage it gives you.

va_rider wrote in post #14665626
Live view is great for composing landscapes... I use it a lot for product photography.... for shooting at night...

One common trend with all of those: The camera is on a tripod.

Live view is great for what it was designed for. However, if you think you're going to hand-hold your camera and use Live View, turning your camera into a $1300 point and shoot, you're going to be very disappointed.

Thats interesting, maybe you summed it up in one "turning your camera into a $1300 point and shoot,". Put like that - that is exactly what the Sony A77 is with bells that really work.
Hmmmm made me think what with a lower manufacturing cost and an infinitely better product AF, Sensor, and IQ and user-wise; Canon had better swap very quickly into SLT / Mirrorless + EVF technology or they could lose their No.1. or No.2 position.

The 7D is not meant to be a point-and-shoot with bells. It's a highly-configurable machine that needs to be properly understood to get the most out of it, such as with the many options and settings for AF. If you can't be bothered to read the manual, the 7D is the wrong camera for you.

Submariner wrote in post #14665604

This isn’t a 7D bashing thread, I just genuinely want to know if I’m missing out on how this feature works ( i.e. my misunderstanding) and are there any benefits at all?
Or was it just put there because other camera brands have it! So to score the right results in the reviews Canon just threw in anything one could call Live View.

Perhaps Live View was a nice feature in 2008 (personally I could not comment as I didn’t have a DSLR then) , but as I have had a Sony A77 this Canon utility looks like a pile of slow, technically flawed, outdated junk in comparison.
But then as it’s all very new; I am therefore extremely interested to make sure I’m not missing out on some perfect panacea. Conversely, if it is what I suspect, I’d rather know the truth before wasting time researching manuals and countless videos. And just reach for the Cybershot and get the job done properly.

My Experience of the Live View feature is summarised below.

My understanding is there are 4 live view modes:-
1. In Live View AF. It can autofocus, which is based on where the magnifying rectangle is. But it works like a snail, is very imprecise (big Rectangle) and seems to take an age for the shutter to complete; and has big problems in low light and is a definite ‘no-no’ for moving objects.
Verdict: Useless
2. AF Face detection. You get a broken Rectangle and it will lock onto a face, or mistake an object for a face, and has difficulties if the object moves quickly, or is too small, or you have low light
Verdict: Almost useless
3. AF Quick Mode. You seem to be able to get all the good Quick view options and can pick an Autofocus point. But sadly every time you want to focus, the mirror comes down cuts off the image and focuses. Then you can take the picture, but the shutter takes an age to operate. It’s also very likely that one will move as the image disappears, but it does at least confirm to you that you have missed the focus with the red rectangle.
Verdict : Very clunky not worth having.
4. Manual Focus mode. Here you can move the rectangle to where you want and magnify it to check you have a good AF lock. Nice so far, then it’s all downhill. Once you have a sharp image then you have to depress the shutter 1/2 ; and then it will AF. But then you have to remember to reduce the magnified image size or risk poor AF, and then take the shot. So just when it started to look feasible, we are confronted by the jumping into a ‘blind alley’ scenario, and then having to de-magnify your focused, ‘enlarged’, image or risk a poor IQ photo.
At first it looked like it might add something useful to the Canon kit bag. But then lets itself down badly. It too seemed much slower than non Live View mode!
Verdict :Really can’t see a benefit.

So what have I missed – or is it just, that I’ve been spoilt rotten with the A77’s lightning fast AF, razor sharp focusing, superb advanced technology allowing one to see everything on the screen or view-finder that the human eye can, and more! Plus the colour rendition is ace, and things like focus peaking (optionally outlining in user-defined colours, in real time, everything in focus) OK now that is what I call a loverly feature: sexy and useful. Likewise the SLT mirror means it is all ‘live view’ and hence is far better equipped to work in todays digital imaging environment.

One question when one goes into Live View mode and then selects Quick AF, why do they retain the magnified sensor outline?
If one has selected to use Quick AF focus? i.e. one can have the magnified rectangle in a different place from the actual selected AF point. Q. Am I right, will it focus where the AF Quick mode AF-crosspoints are?
And is the ‘magnified rectangle’ just to help users remember where the AF will be, proviided you manually moved it to where the Quick AF crosshairs are?

Any views – tips or advice on features and what they can offer much appreciated.
Likewise no politically correct answers please – if it’s a waste of space do let me know so I don’t waste my time reading manuals, to try and get something out of nothing.

1. It is not precise, but because it works off of contrast detect, it is very accurate and can even af when phase detect af does not work. Not useless.

2. Never used this before, so I can't say

3. Functions fine for me... but if I wanted phase detect AF I would generally just use the view finder

4. Unbind your AF button from your shutter button or throw your lens in MF mode, problem solves.

I find live view primarily useful for situations where you want to MF or for older folks or people with problems bending over, live view lets them take pictures are angles they would normally have to suffer painful straining to achieve.

Overall, I personally do not use the feature very much, but it costs Canon nothing to put it in since they need to have it for video anyways.

Madweasel wrote in post #14665675
There is certainly one thing you're missing, on your point 4: manual AF. When you do what you describe, you're not focusing manually. The point of that option is when the camera is on a tripod and the subject is not moving, then you can zoom in to the live view image and focus manually to get it really precise. If you use AF in this mode you are throwing away the advantage it gives you.

Sorry Mark I srewed up I meant using it Manually. It's just it's only good for me on a Tripod, as you have to move it back from 'enlarged' mode to normal to actuate the shutter I meant that was when I'd move it slightly.

Thanks for spotting the glaring error but at least I'm getting a good understanding of how to use it [when it can occaisionally add value].

Submariner wrote in post #14665709
Sorry Mark I srewed up I meant using it Manually. It's just it's only good for me on a Tripod, as you have to move it back from 'enlarged' mode to normal to actuate the shutter I meant that was when I'd move it slightly.

Thanks for spotting the glaring error but at least I'm getting a good understanding of how to use it [when it can occaisionally add value].

I would keep working at it then. I use live view with a manual focus 35 1.4 lens at f1.4 hand held all the time and it works just fine (obviously not for action, but for more stationary or slow moving things). Practice makes perfect (well... if not perfect, at least better! ) I also don't go back to normal mode, you can take the photo in enlarged mode.

Live View is incredibly useful for tripod work - you nailed the reason for it when you talked about manual focusing but you forgot to buy MF only lenses, use back-button AF, or turn off your AF switch. Zooming in to 10x and using the DOF Preview button allows you to nail critical focus in a way that AF or your bare eyes never could.

IMO, live view is not meant to be used as a P&S viewfinder so you can hold your DSLR a foot from your face - it's specifically for achieving critical focus.

I can't comment specifically to the 7D but I use live view & manual focus occasionally.

For landscape I sometimes use it esp with the ND110 as it allows me to compose the shot without removing the filter in daylight. I also sometimes use it for macro [on tripod] work where I want accurate focus or using a very shallow DOF.

In both cases I will zoom in to where I want to focus, manual focus, flick LV back OFF, then fire the shutter. Simples

The reason I don't use it very often is because I don't need to use it very often. It is a handy feature to have though when it is needed.

Madweasel wrote in post #14665695
The 7D is not meant to be a point-and-shoot with bells. It's a highly-configurable machine that needs to be properly understood to get the most out of it, such as with the many options and settings for AF. If you can't be bothered to read the manual, the 7D is the wrong camera for you.

Wow! I may be mistaken, but I read that as pretty harsh for someone asking about a feature they don't use much. Reading the manual to understand how, and using the feature to understand why, are two entirely different things. By your logic I should throw my 60D and T1i in the trash because I haven't mastered 'Live-view' and the video functions. Why bother? I looked at them. I don't find them useful for what I do with a camera. In my opinion, and I have stated this here before, Live-view is a glorified EVF, and video will become useful when it can AF on the fly. I know, I know. Others find these features useful. I am OK with that. Please allow me the same courtesy.

The way I often use live view is for overhead shot at 10MM.

I put the camera in live view with face detection. Then raise the camera way above my head and push the button on my grip trying to get my camera as high up as possible and angle it downward. Here is what it what the end results look like. You can of course get the same effect standing on a box but live view makes your composition easier.

For the first year or so of 7D ownership, it was one of the basically unused features on my camera.

But when I discovered the 10x zoom feature, and used it for spot-on manual focusing; live view has become a favorite option for shooting when I have the camera tripod mounted and have the time to take my time.

Frame the shot at 1X, pick your focus spot with the joystick, then zoom to 10x (it zooms to your focus spot, not the center) and you can adjust your focus to within microns. Great feature!