Live View on a 7D is it useable? or just a marketing tick-list feature? Or am I missi

Ah yeah I also use live view for shooting the moon. Zooming in 10x on a tripod with remote. I am able to really zoom in and hit the focus perfectly. Plus you can also see the very slightest vibration through live view caused by slight wind or stepping.

BaghdadFred wrote in post #14665799
Ah yeah I also use live view for shooting the moon. Zooming in 10x on a tripod with remote. I am able to really zoom in and hit the focus perfectly.

I'm always amazed that, when shooting the moon, you can't just put it on ∞ and go -- I mean, if the moon is not ∞ what is?!

(It was a rhetorical question, your don's have to answer: the Omega Nebula)

BaghdadFred,
Interesting shots! I'll have to give that Live-view another look.
Thanks.

Madweasel wrote in post #14665695
The 7D is not meant to be a point-and-shoot with bells. It's a highly-configurable machine that needs to be properly understood to get the most out of it, such as with the many options and settings for AF. If you can't be bothered to read the manual, the 7D is the wrong camera for you.

Thats what I am doing, hence the post. As in many areas for me the 7D is almost like a pro camera, when I found this area, which surprised me as well to put it bluntly the 7D 's implementation of this very poor; I thought I'd check.
Plus I have now got some tips for when it it is worth using ie. on a tripod for landscapes, or if I ever did macro (which I don't currently do) it could be useful then.

c2thew wrote in post #14665661
it's a known fact that sony has a better understanding of their video system line up in their consumer and prosumer line. When it comes to shooting video at the consumer level, sony is ahead of canon and nikon. Where sony falls flat on their face is the inability to resolve detail in terms of their sensor use. They dumb down their sensor so much that detail is smeared compared to the sony and nikon equivalents. To add insult to injury, sony markets "if it has more megapixels it's a better camera" approach; largely to confuse consumers.

so yes, sony's live view is better, however canon is very much useable

I'd agree with most of this statement except I can't agree with "falls flat on their face is the inability to resolve detail in terms of their sensor use". Owning both; Sony certainly CAN 'resolve detail in terms of their sensor'. The A77 is streets ahead of the 7D, BUT only up to ISO 1600, then you get what some call 'noise', which is er nasty! If they solve that, which I am sure they will, then they will be light years ahead in terms of AF (accuracy and speed) and Picture IQ + video and Live View. Sure they play the MPS war game for the uninitiated - personally I'd rather have 18 MPS and no noise till ISO 3200 than 24 MPS with noise.
But lets be honest here. Canon have to respond, and fast - watch the September response. Well that is what I'm hoping for.
The other comment I would make is build quality - Canon blows away Sony. Hence why I down-graded my camera body, for the long term investment in Lenses' build quality and the 7D's build.

themadman wrote in post #14665720
I would keep working at it then. I use live view with a manual focus 35 1.4 lens at f1.4 hand held all the time and it works just fine (obviously not for action, but for more stationary or slow moving things). Practice makes perfect (well... if not perfect, at least better! ) I also don't go back to normal mode, you can take the photo in enlarged mode.

re your statement "I also don't go back to normal mode, you can take the photo in enlarged mode"
I'm interested as I couldn't really understand why the manual on p.141 said "If you autofocus in the Live mode’s normal view and then magnify the image, the focus might be off". and on p146. "If you autofocus in the Live mode’s normal view and then magnify the image, the focus might be off."
So it works for you - I must try that, as the going back to normal view bit, was one of the reasons I thought this is a real pain.

BaghdadFred wrote in post #14665775
The way I often use live view is for overhead shot at 10MM.

I put the camera in live view with face detection. Then raise the camera way above my head and push the button on my grip trying to get my camera as high up as possible and angle it downward. Here is what it what the end results look like. You can of course get the same effect standing on a box but live view makes your composition easier.

Now that is a neat tip thanks - wouldn't have thought of that - and overcomes one thing the Sony A77 has which is a multi angle tilt and swivel screen. On one hand I like it's convenience, on the other being a build quality guy you see this puny swivel joint and think er that will break the day the warranty is over - in fairness its working fine BUT! So when I am using the 7D I find myself going for it!

sambarino wrote in post #14665749
Wow! I may be mistaken, but I read that as pretty harsh for someone asking about a feature they don't use much. Reading the manual to understand how, and using the feature to understand why, are two entirely different things. By your logic I should throw my 60D and T1i in the trash because I haven't mastered 'Live-view' and the video functions. Why bother? I looked at them. I don't find them useful for what I do with a camera. In my opinion, and I have stated this here before, Live-view is a glorified EVF, and video will become useful when it can AF on the fly. I know, I know. Others find these features useful. I am OK with that. Please allow me the same courtesy.

The post you quote was in response to a later post of the OP's, not the original question. I didn't intend it to be harsh, though perhaps a bit provocative. Your logic is in error, because you are comparing a feature you don't use (and I am indeed ok with that), with AF, which I would say is a key feature of any DSLR. The 7D's implementation of AF is not straightforward, hence my statement about the necessity of reading the manual. Anyone who thinks it is like a point-and-shoot with extra bells (which is how the post I was responding to sounded to me) will be disappointed.

For what it's worth I have had my 7D for a year now and have not yet even tried the video facility to check it out.

Madweasel wrote in post #14666971
The post you quote was in response to a later post of the OP's, not the original question. I didn't intend it to be harsh, though perhaps a bit provocative. Your logic is in error, because you are comparing a feature you don't use (and I am indeed ok with that), with AF, which I would say is a key feature of any DSLR. The 7D's implementation of AF is not straightforward, hence my statement about the necessity of reading the manual. Anyone who thinks it is like a point-and-shoot with extra bells (which is how the post I was responding to sounded to me) will be disappointed.

For what it's worth I have had my 7D for a year now and have not yet even tried the video facility to check it out.

Well Marc I'm not a video person but you should try it. And here is the wierd thing. Most admit Sony are the Kings of video in the DSLR market. And my A77 can do 50p and 24p and has blistering all time AF in video mode. So I tried the 7D hesitantly thinking it would be very nasty in comparison (especially after seeing the promo for the 5DIII on push bike). Seriously that nearly made me throw up. Ughh! So here is the real surprise event of the year I think the 7D's video is better than the A77......figure that one out!!!!!!!!!!!! OK it doesn't have AF but I was videoing the cat cleaning itself (so there was motion but not taxing a fixed focus). Apart from the AWB being off on the canon - a few setting changes later and bingo. I was surprised as the 24 mps and 50 fps should have spanked the 24 fps and 18 mps.

If you don't use a tripod often, Live View won't appeal much. Get the AF function off the shutter button and onto another button, then once you have MF'd to perfection with 10x zoom (and confirmed everything you want sharp is within the DoF) you already have the mirror locked up so shutter release by cable remote is totally calm and quiet Once you find out about tilt/shift lenses and/or get interested in landscapes, your view of live view will change ...

OP:

I just came from an A77 setup.

Because the A77 is using the always-in-place SLT, it's pretty much going to blast almost all over cameras in their live view implementations (except maybe the Nikon V1 because of its hybrid AF on-chip).

That's just one thing you're going to have to swallow losing - the A77's AF, in conjunction with its swivel rear LCD, is primo for composing off-angle shots, and there aren't many cameras that can match it (7D included).

Most other live view implementations are only good for really precise macro or landscape focusing -- if you're really good you can get decent at composing portraits using LV, etc.
They're nothing like the A77, though.

cputeq007 wrote in post #14668399
OP:

I just came from an A77 setup.

Because the A77 is using the always-in-place SLT, it's pretty much going to blast almost all over cameras in their live view implementations (except maybe the Nikon V1 because of its hybrid AF on-chip).

That's just one thing you're going to have to swallow losing - the A77's AF, in conjunction with its swivel rear LCD, is primo for composing off-angle shots, and there aren't many cameras that can match it (7D included).

Most other live view implementations are only good for really precise macro or landscape focusing -- if you're really good you can get decent at composing portraits using LV, etc.
They're nothing like the A77, though.

I guess you totally understand what I mean , and my desire to check out I was not missing something because of the A77's superior 'live view' implementation [due to technical advantages] and better AF & IQ [Because of the better Sensor technology].

Apart from the better/more robust build quality and superior manual 'control' on the 7D due you find that in other respects such as IQ and especially AF it's a downgrade?

NB I suspected this before I moved, but did it anyway for the long term investment in L series lenses.

It seems to me that we're comparing apples and oranges here and are surprised when we find they taste different.

The A77 is a fixed mirror SLR explressly setup with an EVF and permanent 'live view'. The 7D is a traditional flipping mirror SLR and live-view is meant as an aid for tripod work with non-moving subjects, or maybe for over-the-head shots and such like. That doesn't mean that the 7D and its AF don't beat the A77 in lots of other ways. I for one would MUCH prefer a real optical viewfinder with phase-detect AF than a permanent EVF with contrast-detect. Add that to the list of other advantages that the Canon product set offers, including an excellent range of lenses, and you've got a much more compelling reason to go Canon.

Just my 2c worth...

hairy_moth wrote in post #14665777
Frame the shot at 1X, pick your focus spot with the joystick, then zoom to 10x (it zooms to your focus spot, not the center) and you can adjust your focus to within microns. Great feature!

x2 on this

LV AF works very well for me for macro and planetary photography.
It eliminates mirror slap vibrations.
With LV I can use silent mode and can even eliminate shutter slap vibrations.
(which can totally ruin telescope photo's at 3000mm focal length equivalent)

I zoom in 10x on the LCD and can achieve super accurate focus.
Manual focus also works very well when zooming in with factor 10.
Focusing on a star or planet is a dream with LV.

Also LV AF is far more accurate than standard viewfinder AF:
the latter may produce back focus or front focus errors.
Since LV AF does the focusing on the sensor itself it can never front or back focus.

BTW: What I don't like about mirrorless designs is about 1/2 stop of light loss, which is a concern in very low light situations. (like astro photography)