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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 04 Jul 2012 (Wednesday) 09:40
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Copyright question

 
lauderdalems
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Jul 04, 2012 09:40 |  #1

Copyright question. If you trespass to take a photograph or otherwise take a picture illegally, do you still own the copyright to that picture. Another words, if you get something by breaking the law, is it still yours.

Just a question - no I have not been shooting anything illegally.


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Too ­ Distracted
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Jul 04, 2012 09:45 |  #2

In America, yes you would. They are separate legal issues. Most likely, as long as you haven't broken any of the Patriot Act type of laws (ie. snapping photos all through the Pentagon), your photos are your photos.
Whether you're prosecuted for getting them remains another issue entirely.


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photoguy6405
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Jul 04, 2012 16:27 |  #3

Too Distracted wrote in post #14669353 (external link)
In America, yes you would. They are separate legal issues. Most likely, as long as you haven't broken any of the Patriot Act type of laws (ie. snapping photos all through the Pentagon), your photos are your photos.
Whether you're prosecuted for getting them remains another issue entirely.

I am not a lawyer, but I have done enough reading on the subject to agree that I believe this is correct.


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RichSoansPhotos
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Jul 05, 2012 02:15 |  #4
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lauderdalems wrote in post #14669329 (external link)
Copyright question. If you trespass to take a photograph or otherwise take a picture illegally, do you still own the copyright to that picture. Another words, if you get something by breaking the law, is it still yours.

Just a question - no I have not been shooting anything illegally.


Yes you would, but don't do it because you can get in trouble, there would be a lot of evidence




  
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birderman
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Jul 05, 2012 06:44 |  #5

Would this mean that if you get caught because you own the copyright the property owners cannot force you to handover or destroy the photographs taken before your capture ? Does anyone know if this situation is different in the UK ? There are a few times in the past where I have attended events where photography was clearly prohibited but I smuggled a camera in regardless and took photos (but never got caught) so technical I was breaking the law and could off been in this situation.


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hairy_moth
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Jul 05, 2012 07:41 |  #6

birderman wrote in post #14672851 (external link)
There are a few times in the past where I have attended events where photography was clearly prohibited but I smuggled a camera in regardless and took photos.

I believe that, in that case you are essentially using your camera to copy what is already copyright protected property.


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Luckless
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Jul 05, 2012 08:08 |  #7

It has been my understanding that a court can, and has, order the destruction of photographic, video, and audio materials that otherwise have valid copyrights by the owner. Invasion of privacy, security matters, etc.

If you break into someone's house to snap a few photos, the homeowner apparently has no right to demand you destroy the photos right there in most parts of the world, but the courts very well can after the fact.

Also, as said, reproducing a copyrighted work of art that has banned reproduction by video/photo will invalidate your copyright on the photo you take, and they can order them destroyed along with the other damages during a court battle.

So, basically if they say no cameras, and you're not trying to bust up something illegal, just leave the camera alone and enjoy the show.


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AvailableLight
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Jul 05, 2012 08:40 |  #8

Luckless wrote in post #14673046 (external link)
It has been my understanding that a court can, and has, order the destruction of photographic, video, and audio materials that otherwise have valid copyrights by the owner. Invasion of privacy, security matters, etc.

That is my understanding as well.


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neilwood32
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Jul 05, 2012 11:51 |  #9

birderman wrote in post #14672851 (external link)
Would this mean that if you get caught because you own the copyright the property owners cannot force you to handover or destroy the photographs taken before your capture ? Does anyone know if this situation is different in the UK ? There are a few times in the past where I have attended events where photography was clearly prohibited but I smuggled a camera in regardless and took photos (but never got caught) so technical I was breaking the law and could off been in this situation.

You have taken photos on private property with the express stipulation that photography is not permitted.

The courts would, imho (and I am not a lawyer), be sympathetic to the venue/performer whose photos you took and would probably insist on deletion as they were unlawfully taken. Remember when on private land you must abide by the landowners rules


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maidmarian4
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Jul 05, 2012 15:38 as a reply to  @ neilwood32's post |  #10

I don't know if this is entirely related, but I took a video (using a waterproof Kodak Playsport) of my husband and I entering the lines to get on our cruise ship (Mexican Riviera with RC). I was filming so I could show our kids how interesting entering the ship was.

Anyway, when I got up to get onto the ship again, the port person (?) told me I *had* to delete everything I just recorded (no matter if it started hours ago). They said it was a matter of security and that they *had* to watch me delete it. Even with me explaining I'd recorded awhile back, they wouldn't budge. So, unfortunately for the fun memory, I deleted it. But, to get onto the ship, it had to be done.


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hairy_moth
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Jul 05, 2012 15:57 |  #11

maidmarian4 wrote in post #14674964 (external link)
Anyway, when I got up to get onto the ship again, the port person (?) told me I *had* to delete everything I just recorded (no matter if it started hours ago). They said it was a matter of security and that they *had* to watch me delete it. Even with me explaining I'd recorded awhile back, they wouldn't budge. So, unfortunately for the fun memory, I deleted it. But, to get onto the ship, it had to be done.

I don't know about Mexico, I just saw this in another thread: https://photography-on-the.net …hp?p=14671632&p​ostcount=8


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Echo ­ Johnson
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Jul 05, 2012 18:41 |  #12

neilwood32 wrote in post #14673910 (external link)
You have taken photos on private property with the express stipulation that photography is not permitted.

The courts would, imho (and I am not a lawyer), be sympathetic to the venue/performer whose photos you took and would probably insist on deletion as they were unlawfully taken. Remember when on private land you must abide by the landowners rules

Indeed, but surely the critical aspect here is that it would have to be an order from the court; you would not be required to delete photos if a property owner asks/requests/orders you to do so.
So if security personnel tell you to delete a picture, you could be politely refuse.

Do we have any UK/England & Wales/Scots law legal eagles here?


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maidmarian4
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Jul 06, 2012 02:08 |  #13

hairy_moth wrote in post #14675049 (external link)
I don't know about Mexico, I just saw this in another thread: https://photography-on-the.net …hp?p=14671632&p​ostcount=8

Yeah, I saw that as well. I *think* the big deal was the fact that I had video of them checking the bags as they came onto the ship. I had recorded their "security measures." Apparently they are secretive enough that I had to erase the whole thing for their peace of mind. I don't understand it though - it's not like it's any different than crossing the border from the USA to Mexico or Canada...

Anyone have thoughts??? What would you have done if the (Mexico based) security person told you you HAD to erase a video you'd taken for security purposes???


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birderman
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Jul 06, 2012 05:32 |  #14

Okay the security stand over you and watch you delete the photos/video then allow you to proceed on your way into the venue/ship/plane....so is this the end of the matter have you lost the pictures/video to show you friends and family....probably not, what stops you using one of the many available data recovery software applications when you finish the trip and get back home to restore the deleted files (if you expect this to happen then ensure you carry extra memory cards), there are limitations to this software but if the results are only going to be for private viewing who will know and besides which will the venue security be interested in wasting time in chasing you up if they discover you have done this after the event....


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maidmarian4
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Jul 06, 2012 10:21 |  #15

birderman wrote in post #14677651 (external link)
Okay the security stand over you and watch you delete the photos/video then allow you to proceed on your way into the venue/ship/plane....so is this the end of the matter have you lost the pictures/video to show you friends and family....probably not, what stops you using one of the many available data recovery software applications when you finish the trip and get back home to restore the deleted files (if you expect this to happen then ensure you carry extra memory cards), there are limitations to this software but if the results are only going to be for private viewing who will know and besides which will the venue security be interested in wasting time in chasing you up if they discover you have done this after the event....

I didn't even know I could recover the file! Unfortunately, I'm guessing I've already formatted that card, so I'm guessing the file is gone? It would definitely be for personal use, but I may have placed it on YouTube ... which would give it a lot more access.


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