Photography rights question

My father and I were out at a local 4th of July fair tonight that included a car show. We both had our canons with us and while meandering around a random guy asks my father if he is a professional photographer (he is not).

The guy then goes on to say that we shouldn't take pictures of peoples cars without asking permission, if you are a pro photographer and he doesn't want us taking pictures of his car.

I asked him which car was his and he replied that he wasn't going to tell me. At that point I told him that in that case it didn't matter to me and I'd photograph whatever I like, have a nice day.

He then threatened to call the police and got in my fathers face. This is when the show organizer came over and tried to de-escalate the situation.

So my question is: does old man in question have any legal ability to act this way? For the record when it was revealed which car was his, we were nowhere near his, if that matters.

Thanks for thoughts. We went on about our business, but this is the first time I've ncountered anything like this.

Nope. You're free to photograph and sell prints of photographs of his car. It's ultimately the venue's discretion as to whether or not to allow you to take photographs, not someone participating. The only thing you would need permission for would be in getting POSSIBLY a property release, but in the US as far as I know they haven't really held up when someone has complained, and even then you'd only need that in the same situations as you would need a model release - selling for use as promotion.

JDPhotoGuy wrote in post #14671479
Nope. You're free to photograph and sell prints of photographs of his car. It's ultimately the venue's discretion as to whether or not to allow you to take photographs, not someone participating. The only thing you would need permission for would be in getting POSSIBLY a property release, but in the US as far as I know they haven't really held up when someone has complained, and even then you'd only need that in the same situations as you would need a model release - selling for use as promotion.

This was my belief, but having never encountered it, I just wanted to verify. Thank you for the reply.

cru wrote in post #14671493
This was my belief, but having never encountered it, I just wanted to verify. Thank you for the reply.

No problem! Though, being in the right with someone in your face isn't exactly much comfort. Car owner should have been asked to leave for a hand full of reasons.

Subscribed...This has never happened to me, but I have often wondered what I would say if it ever did...I suppose it may depend on how big the guy was

The guy's size didn't worry me. I stayed calm and MOSTLY diplomatic until he put his hand on my dad. He was an older guy though so I know I could have neutralized if required, but I'm glad it didn't come too that. Too much hassle afterwards.

rrblint wrote in post #14671505
Subscribed...This has never happened to me, but I have often wondered what I would say if it ever did...I suppose it may depend on how big the guy was

Remember, it's not how big the other guy is, it's how crazy you can make yourself look. For folks like myself, it's pretty easy... I just run in circles around him flailing my arms yelling "public spaces, you're fair game!" Call your camera your "precious" and while petting it say "one red ring to rule them all!" You should get a pretty wide swath cut around you to let you do your thing in peace.

for those interested in their photography rights. petapixel sells a gray card with the rights printed on them hahaha:

1. You can make a photograph of anything and anyone on any public property, except where a specific law prohibits it.

e.g. streets, sidewalks, town squares, parks, government buildings open to the public, and public libraries.

2. You may shoot on private property if it is open to the public, but you are obligated to stop if the owner requests it.

e.g. malls, retail stores, restaurants, banks, and office building lobbies.

3. Private property owners can prevent photography ON their property, but not photography OF their property from a public location.

4. Anyone can be photographed without consent when they are in a public place unless there is a reasonable expectation of privacy.

e.g. private homes, restrooms, dressing rooms, medical facilities, and phone booths.

5. Despite common misconceptions, the following subjects are almost always permissible:

* accidents, fire scenes, criminal activities
* children, celebrities, law enforcement officers
* bridges, infrastructure, transportation facilities
* residential, commercial, and industrial buildings

6. Security is rarely an acceptable reason for restricting photography. Photographing from a public place cannot infringe on trade secrets, nor is it terrorist activity.

7. Private parties cannot detain you against your will unless a serious crime was committed in their presence. Those that do so may be subject to criminal and civil charges.

8. It is a crime for someone to threaten injury, detention, confiscation, or arrest because you are making photographs.

9. You are not obligated to provide your identity or reason for photographing unless questioned by a law enforcement officer and state law requires it.

10. Private parties have no right to confiscate your equipment without a court order. Even law enforcement officers must obtain one unless making an arrest. No one can force you to delete photos you have made.


These are general guidelines regarding the right to make photos and should not be interpreted as legal advice. If you need legal help, please contact a lawyer.

source:
http://store.petapixel​.com …Rights-Gray-Card-Set.html

In an international forum it's just worth making clear that those are US laws that should not be assumed to hold elsewhere.

I understand that the situation is very similar in the UK but still haven't been able to find a definitive list such as the one posted for the US above. However, there does seem to be situations where it doesn't seem to matter whether the photographer is in the right or not it always seems to be down to whovever complains the loudest gets first say. As for photographing buildings in London a couple years ago there was reports of certain underground stations preventing people on the street from photographing them to the extent that they even got police involved and forced the photographer to wipe the memory card and in some circumstances even went as far as actually confiscating the the memory card, their excuse was anti-terrorism security which seems to be the popular get out clause used for a large number of situations these days. I have only ever had one confrontation with authorities about taking photos, it was years ago at heathrow airport and all it was a polite comment from security not to use a tripod in certain locations at the airport as it from observations in t control tower may get misconstrued as something more sinister, apart from that they were happy that I could photography what and where I wanted. Sometimes I believe these situations arrive due to lack of knowledge and understanding by the individuals put in charge of such places. As for photographing members of the public I feel that although we may have a legal right in public places it is still common courtesy and respectful to request permission or at least offer the opportunity for them to see/buy the finished prints if candid shots are taken. I have made many friends over the years through candid photography with this approach, although these days I feel the situation in UK is somewhat different and I feel that a more cautious approach is required than used to be and feel that doing Candid work on public can be somewhat disconcerting.

Very similar laws as we have here in Australia.

Karl

So he brings it to a public place & then says that you need to ask permission? The guy is a dickhead, & probably teases children & dogs with treats that they can see, but not have. In the US: The Photographer’s Right

The ACLU posted “Know Your Rights: Photographers”

Colbert Report - Nailed 'Em - Amtrak Photographer
http://www.colbertnati​on.com …-em---amtrak-photographer
Amtrak - Photographer Gets a Five Figure Settlement

Photography, the Law and Photographers Rights

PhotosGuy wrote in post #14673155
So he brings it to a public place & then says that you need to ask permission? The guy is a dickhead, & probably teases children & dogs with treats that they can see, but not have.

LOL! Not defending the dickhead, but something that it's not clear is if this event did indeed take place in a public place. The OP said it was a "4th of July fair and car show" so it possibly could've taken place in an arena or colisseum which in that case, like JDPhotoGuy said, the venue or event coordinator could place restrictions (not the a-hole).

Perhaps the OP can confirm this happened at a public location?

when the hand touched my father, the pepper spray would come out. it reads like he had too much to drink and wasn't a happy drunk.

I appreciate all the comments. I'm glad the international guys are chiming in too because I recently got my passport and I've been looking forward to some travel. I've currently got an apple juice jar filling up with money so I can visit Australia.

As for the event, it was on public land. Parking lot of a city owned facility. This was also where they were setting off the fireworks for the evening.

@ rick_reno: I didn't have pepper spray, but I did have something besides my camera to shoot with, but I didn't think it warranted that. I think the guy was just a grumpy old man.

Funny side note: We had already been past this guys car when this incident happened, and I hadn't taken pictures of it because I honestly didn't think it was very interesting.


Again, thanks for the information and thoughts, much appreciated!