How would you have handled this situation?

A few weekends ago I stopped by an event called Spike 'N Splash in Racine, Wisconsin. It was held on North Beach - a public beach owned by the City of Racine and admission was free and open to everyone. The event consisted of watercraft racing sponsored by UWP and beach volleyball sponsored by the EVP Tour.

I was interested in the freestyle stunts by the jet ski riders so I was shot that for a while using a 1D Mark III with a 400mm f/2.8 lens and 1.4x converter on a monopod. Meanwhile I noticed a local male volleyball player in a match so I walked over to watch him. Since I know people how react to large lenses I had my camera and lens pointed at the ground.

While watching the match a guy who I assume is affiliated with the EVP Tour came up to me and asked, "Are you a pro or an amateur?"
I replied, "What difference does it make?"
To which he said "If you're an amateur we could work something out but if you're a pro this is a private event and you can't photograph it."
I just shrugged and said, "Well, I'm not shooting anything" and he walked away.

Shortly after a huge thunderstorm rolled through and they had to suspend the event so I ran back to my car and drove home. But in the brief time I was watching there were at least 10 other people with DSLRs/kit lenses taking photos of the volleyball. I had dismissed it from my mind until a few minutes ago when I read this thread, so I'm curious to know how you would have reacted.

Meh, those situations can be complicated. It could be that they don't want unapproved pros shooting their events and selling images without their permission. They may have a clause in their contract with the city that states as much. Or they may just assume they can exclude any working togs, knowing that by the time the issue is resolved the event is over.

You might be right but I'm not a pro. And how does one determine whether someone holding a camera is a pro or not?

The odd thing is that no one from the watercraft tour said objected to me shooting and they were all on the same beach in roughly the same location.

PixelMagic wrote in post #14674435
You might be right but I'm not a pro. And how does one determine whether someone holding a camera is a pro or not?

The odd thing is that no one from the watercraft tour said objected to me shooting and they were all on the same beach in roughly the same location.

It becomes discretionary. I've found that more often then not people telling you that you can't photograph something tend to be mistaken, but in situations like this by the time the situation is sorted the event may well be over.

Well the way you handled it worked fine for you. I probably would've answered "amateur" but then I would've opened myself up to whatever the rep meant by "work something out." Good call on you by answering "what difference does it make?"

I'd have pulled out my I-Phone and called this:

Volleyball Magazine
Madavor Media LLC
85 Quincy Ave., Suite 2
Quincy, MA 02169
Tel: 617-706-9110
Fax: 617-536-0102

Editorial

Aubrey Everett, Managing Editor
aeverett@madavor.com

If they agreed on coverage, I'd be shooting when I put the phone down.

In general, a public event that is open and free on public property is fair game. A closed venue with tickets or private ownership is another matter.

Maybe I'm way off base, but why not just answer the question honestly?

I'm guessing that a pro would understand the reasons behind the question, and act professionally, and abide by whatever rules/guidelines there may be for a particular event in regards to photography. I would also think that a pro would approach the event coordinators beforehand to see what permissions would be necessary to shoot the even without complications.

I think your answer told him you were not a professional.

I think the big thing was your lens selection; I doubt you would have gotten any interest from the "pro" if you had a "regular" lens on the camera.

Most of the times that I have had to deal with the situation from the other side, I've tried to make sure that I'm letting people do their thing, as long as they aren't getting in my way (figuratively and literally). On the flip side, I've tried to respect pro photographers when I'm at "their"event (as it sounds like you did on that one).

Why should I claim to be a pro when I don't making my living from photography?

There were absolutely no "rules/guidelines" that I am aware of. There were no tickets with conditions printed on them, neither were there any posted signs.

As I stated in the original post, I did not go to the event to shoot volleyball; why would I have a 400mm lens if that was my intention? I was just standing watching play when I was approached.

KirkS518 wrote in post #14674529
Maybe I'm way off base, but why not just answer the question honestly?

I'm guessing that a pro would understand the reasons behind the question, and act professionally, and abide by whatever rules/guidelines there may be for a particular event in regards to photography. I would also think that a pro would approach the event coordinators beforehand to see what permissions would be necessary to shoot the even without complications.

I think your answer told him you were not a professional.

It's one of the great conundrums we face...

A real "Pro" will understand and respect "rights" and won't sell without permission.
An "Amateur" usually won't understand anything about "rights" and wouldn't hesitate to try and make a buck off their images.

However, the "Pro" gets denied access (often because of the apparent level of their gear) while the "Amateur" is welcomed with open arms. I've seen this at all kinds of sporting events and it's always left me scratching my head.

The EVP tour will be back in September so i will probably ask the city or the convention bureau what are the conditions for events they co-sponsor.

Scatterbrained wrote in post #14674450
It becomes discretionary. I've found that more often then not people telling you that you can't photograph something tend to be mistaken, but in situations like this by the time the situation is sorted the event may well be over.

Yeah, its quite a conundrum....I suspect someone held the rights to photograph the event given the amount of cameras I saw around the courts; especially the women's matches.

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #14674981
It's one of the great conundrums we face...

A real "Pro" will understand and respect "rights" and won't sell without permission.
An "Amateur" usually won't understand anything about "rights" and wouldn't hesitate to try and make a buck off their images.

However, the "Pro" gets denied access (often because of the apparent level of their gear) while the "Amateur" is welcomed with open arms. I've seen this at all kinds of sporting events and it's always left me scratching my head.

PixelMagic wrote in post #14675234
Yeah, its quite a conundrum....I suspect someone held the rights to photograph the event given the amount of cameras I saw around the courts; especially the women's matches.

Were there barricades/stands/phot​o tower/signage/anything set up or were they literally playing on open beach?

There was signage for he corporate sponsors around an area of about six courts and a few hospitality tents. The rest of the courts were open to the public although I don't think anyone was using them while the competition was going on.

FlyingPhotog wrote in post #14675241
Were there barricades/stands/phot​o tower/signage/anything set up or were they literally playing on open beach?

KirkS518 wrote in post #14674529
Maybe I'm way off base, but why not just answer the question honestly?

I'm guessing that a pro would understand the reasons behind the question, and act professionally, and abide by whatever rules/guidelines there may be for a particular event in regards to photography. I would also think that a pro would approach the event coordinators beforehand to see what permissions would be necessary to shoot the even without complications.

I think your answer told him you were not a professional.

what if he was a professional photographer for an architecture magazine but just was out and about to shoot some pictures of the stunts and volleyball for his own personal use and not to sell them...

asking if you're a pro is a misleading question b/c I can be a professional photographer for one thing but an enthusiast of another.