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Thread started 05 Jul 2012 (Thursday) 23:50
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Changing Up Prices...

 
Christopher ­ Steven ­ b
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Jul 08, 2012 17:49 |  #46

^ I also endorse that view.



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Hogloff
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Jul 08, 2012 20:05 |  #47
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Thomas Campbell wrote in post #14683886 (external link)
Very, very well said.


There are lots of ways to learn photography without being free. I never shot for free until I was established and decided to donate my services to a charity.


Do you necessarily need a portfolio to book a client? I booked my first weddings without a wedding portfolio. I had second shot a few weddings, but never booked a wedding and never shot for free. They all paid me over $2000 with no portfolio.


Get a mannequin head and practice your use of light. Go to a workshop. Hire another photographer for lessons. Buy a season pass to the zoo and practice shooting animals. There are tons of ways to practice and learn photography without giving your work away or sucking on photoshoots. Shoot what you love for yourself.


Bingo.

Yes, but me as a potential client only sees mannequin heads in your portfolio...I'll be straight out your door and right to your competition. To me, the portfolio is all that counts. Don't have one...out of a job as far as I am concerned.




  
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Hogloff
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Jul 08, 2012 20:24 |  #48
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Thomas Campbell wrote in post #14685095 (external link)
I think if a photographer has established themself as an expert portrait photographer and a photojournalist, they are probably going to be able to cover a wedding without much difficulty. I picked Zack and Joe because both have done both street/PJ work and portrait work. I might not trust a fashion photographer to capture the moment, but would want a fashion photographer to create great portraits. I know a photographer that wants to make it as a wedding photographer, but their real talent is in portraits - being able to control the entire shoot - not capture the moment as it happens. Now, that photographer may not be so great at details like rings or flowers, but that isn't always important to everyone.


Guess we will have to agree to disagree. I would have loved either of them to cover mine.

But we are not talking about Zak or Joe here, we are talking about a high school student with very little experience. Much different scenario. I think the OP needs to practice and build up a portfolio of work he is comfortable of consistently delivering before charging for his service.




  
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Thomas ­ Campbell
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Jul 09, 2012 00:47 |  #49

Hogloff wrote in post #14689414 (external link)
But we are not talking about Zak or Joe here, we are talking about a high school student with very little experience. Much different scenario. I think the OP needs to practice and build up a portfolio of work he is comfortable of consistently delivering before charging for his service.

That's also kinda my point. People rush into charging - putting the cart before the horse.


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dinanm3atl
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Jul 09, 2012 01:02 |  #50

Love the always tried and true "Never shoot for free" mantra. Sorry but I am never going to charge my mom to take a photo. Sorry I am not going to charge the best man in my wedding a dime when he wants me to come shoot his track day. I also donate not only my time but gas and money to volunteer my services to a Non-Profit. And honestly is one of the highlights of my year.

I get the concept but I do some model/glamour work on the side for fun. I trade my time for their time. I am doing it for free. I usually buy them lunch and give them gas money too. Sure shooting with Alien Bees and a mannequin head in a studio would work... but it doesn't breathe. It's not real. You can't pose it. There are plenty of times where 'working for free' might be of benefit to you personally. I wouldn't just simply rule it out because you read that saying on the internet.

"I understand I have no portfolio but let me show you some of my test shots with a mannequin."
"Yah I did do a really good job with the mannequin. I have been shooting with it for over 2 years."

lulz - Have fun with that. It's easy to step back and play the "Don't shoot for free" thing and it can work in some environments but let's look at something I am more familiar with. If you want to shoot motorsports you are going to at the very least going to be buying a ticket, paying entry and driving somewhere. I spent years behind the fences at local tracks. Spent 80 dollars plus camping/food/loding/et​c at Petit Le Mans and more... before anyone paid me. How am I going to sell a potential client without anything to show them? Practice shots... that show them the results they can expect. FF to now and I have a few clients, published monthly online and in print.

Is my story the standard. Probably not but shooting/practicing is more important when you are starting out than trying to charge someone or not working for free. My 2 cents.


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LONDON808
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Jul 09, 2012 02:33 |  #51

dinanm3atl wrote in post #14690346 (external link)
\ I also donate not only my time but gas and money to volunteer my services to a Non-Profit. And honestly is one of the highlights of my year.

You know thats a tax write off And should be done at your regular rates -


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JDPhotoGuy
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Jul 09, 2012 08:00 |  #52

dinanm3atl wrote in post #14690346 (external link)
Love the always tried and true "Never shoot for free" mantra. Sorry but I am never going to charge my mom to take a photo. Sorry I am not going to charge the best man in my wedding a dime when he wants me to come shoot his track day. I also donate not only my time but gas and money to volunteer my services to a Non-Profit. And honestly is one of the highlights of my year.

I get the concept but I do some model/glamour work on the side for fun. I trade my time for their time. I am doing it for free. I usually buy them lunch and give them gas money too. Sure shooting with Alien Bees and a mannequin head in a studio would work... but it doesn't breathe. It's not real. You can't pose it. There are plenty of times where 'working for free' might be of benefit to you personally. I wouldn't just simply rule it out because you read that saying on the internet.

"I understand I have no portfolio but let me show you some of my test shots with a mannequin."
"Yah I did do a really good job with the mannequin. I have been shooting with it for over 2 years."

lulz - Have fun with that. It's easy to step back and play the "Don't shoot for free" thing and it can work in some environments but let's look at something I am more familiar with. If you want to shoot motorsports you are going to at the very least going to be buying a ticket, paying entry and driving somewhere. I spent years behind the fences at local tracks. Spent 80 dollars plus camping/food/loding/et​c at Petit Le Mans and more... before anyone paid me. How am I going to sell a potential client without anything to show them? Practice shots... that show them the results they can expect. FF to now and I have a few clients, published monthly online and in print.

Is my story the standard. Probably not but shooting/practicing is more important when you are starting out than trying to charge someone or not working for free. My 2 cents.

You folks here like to stretch the bounds of logic. Of course no one is telling you to charge your mom. However, I think everyone here who uses the "mom" example has a limit that even to their own family they'd say "you know what, I can't do this for free. Pay me, or pay someone else." It gets old when we say "never shoot for free" and someone comes back saying "Yeah, well... If Jesus came to me for a family portrait..." So let's apply the same logic here. So you'd shoot for your mom for free even if it would cost you a million bazillion dollars in expenses!?!? Use a little common sense and you'll get it back 10 fold. :)

Now let me step up on this soap box for one comment... And I mean this in general, not toward you. I only speak up now because I've seen it a few times here and elsewhere recently... There are three kinds of people who do charity work: Those who do it because it's the right thing, those who do it for the tax breaks, and those who do it so they can say they did it. I strive for humble, so let's be honest about all our charity work, mine included. If we account on a yearly basis we go more out of our way to satisfy food cravings on the other side of town and spend more excess money on this than we donate to charity time/gas/vehicle wear and tear included. And once again, if you can find a situation to donate photography to charity work, which I am having a hard time figuring out just how (seriously and honestly would like to know so I could look into it locally myself), then it doesn't apply to the "never shoot for free" mantra.

The race events you mention do not apply in a 1:1 ratio for what we're talking about either. It is indeed a special set of circumstances. Event photography is inevitably likely to cost everyone who gets into it a certain amount to practice their craft. But with that, more times than not it typically forms for the photographer in the order of hobby, passion, and then the market niche. Very rarely does someone realize a market niche in event coverage and seek it out JUST for that purpose.

The mannequin comments are played out. No one stated it would make a good portfolio subject nor was it ever implied that it could make you the next best photographer alone. What it is, is a very good "I have no model now" substitute when you want to play around. It's a good "It's 2am and I can't sleep" routine.


Yes, I have severe Equipment Deficiency. No, the pills don't fix it.

  
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Changing Up Prices...
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