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FORUMS Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon Lenses 
Thread started 10 Jul 2012 (Tuesday) 12:40
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Macro Lenses

 
SolEterna
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Jul 10, 2012 12:40 |  #1

Hi All,

I have been thinking about buying a macro lens for a while, but I have NO idea which one to get. I have a Canon Rebel EOS XS which despite being entry level I am extremely happy with.

The issue is that there are just so many different types of macro lenses, like the 35-70mm, 35-105mm, etc. etc. First off, what are the differences regarding the mm, etc. Does this affect the magnification?

I will be taking pics water, insects and a few other things, like jewelry.

I would appreciate any feedback on this.

Thanks,


“In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate” - Isaac Asimov (Lenses: Canon EF 50mm 1.8, Tamron AF18-270mm F/3.5-6.3 Di II VC PZD, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS)

  
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rick_reno
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Jul 10, 2012 13:08 |  #2

i've had the 60mm and both 100's. IQ wise, they're all very close - I'd have a hard time seeing that one is better than another. I swapped the 60 out for a 100 because I wanted more working room between me and the bugs/flowers i was shooting, and then i got the 100L when it came out.




  
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SolEterna
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Jul 10, 2012 13:17 |  #3

Thanks for the feedback Rick, I aprpeciate that. Will I stil get the same macro focus between the two though?

What's the difference then between going with 35-75 or 35-105?


“In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate” - Isaac Asimov (Lenses: Canon EF 50mm 1.8, Tamron AF18-270mm F/3.5-6.3 Di II VC PZD, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS)

  
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artyH
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Jul 10, 2012 13:17 |  #4

For insects, the Canon 100f2.8 is probably better, because of the extra working distance between the front of the lens and the subject.
The zooms you mention are not really macro lenses. They won't give you magification up to life size. The best most current zooms might do is 1/2 life size.




  
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SolEterna
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Jul 10, 2012 13:19 |  #5

Sigh - I'm lost as to what I should buy then. What should I look out for then in terms of a lens?


“In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate” - Isaac Asimov (Lenses: Canon EF 50mm 1.8, Tamron AF18-270mm F/3.5-6.3 Di II VC PZD, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS)

  
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RPCrowe
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Jul 10, 2012 13:39 |  #6

SolEterna wrote in post #14697273 (external link)
The issue is that there are just so many different types of macro lenses, like the 35-70mm, 35-105mm, etc. etc. First off, what are the differences regarding the mm, etc. Does this affect the magnification?

The lenses you mention are zoom lenses with close-up but, not macro capability. They will not provide 1:1 magnification (in which the image on the sensor is the same size as the subject). Instead they provide magnifications usually in the range of 1:3 or 1:4 in which the image on the sensor is 1/3 or 1/4 the size of the subject.

Calling these lenses "macro" is a marketing ploy. The rationale is that when a 1:3 or 1:4 image is enlarged to print size, it is at least 1:1.

A macro lens will provide magnification of up to 1:1 without needing an extension tube or close up filter. The true macro lenses will have very good to excellent image quality at those magnifications.

True macro lenses come in various focal lengths and are prime (non-zooming). Focal lengths range from 50mm to 180mm. There is absolutely no difference between the magnifications of lenses of these focal lengths. At 1:1, they will all produce the same size image. The difference is the lens to subject distances when providing the 1:1 imagery. The longer the focal length the longer the lens to subject distance.

Longer lenses allow you to light the macro shot and the longer distances do not tend to frighten little creepy crawlies you are shooting. However, the longer focal length macros are usually heavier and more expensive.

I personally prefer a prime macro lens of around 90-105mm because I consider this focal range a good compromise between lens to subject distance; weight and price. I use a Tamron 90mm f/2.8 AF SP macro lens and think highly of it.

BTW: Canon offers the MPE-65 as a specialty macro lens which can only produce imagery of 1:1 to 5:1 magnification. It cannot shoot at less than 1:1. In other words, it cannot cover an area greater than the size of your sensor.


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chrismarriott66
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Jul 11, 2012 03:50 |  #7

As people have already said, you'll be better off with a prime... have a look at the Canon 60mm and the Canon 100mm :)


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SolEterna
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Jul 11, 2012 07:58 |  #8

Hi RPCrowe,

Thank you so much for that message. It is super informative and I have learned so much from those few paragraphs it is unbelievable.

Thanks again, I now have a general idea dn direction and also, looking at the lenses you have mentioned, they not going to attract an overly insane price.

Have a great day!!


“In life, unlike chess, the game continues after checkmate” - Isaac Asimov (Lenses: Canon EF 50mm 1.8, Tamron AF18-270mm F/3.5-6.3 Di II VC PZD, Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS)

  
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Bill ­ Ragosta
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Jul 11, 2012 08:15 |  #9

I am by no means an expert or even close to one but I just bought the Tokina AT-X 100mm f/2.8 macro and I've been very happy with it so far. I've never used the Canon 100 macros and I know that everyone loves them but the "off brands" also have their fans.


Canon 60D, Canon 30D with grip, EF 70-300 IS USM, Tokina AT-X Pro 100 f/2.8 macro, EF 100-400 1:4.5-5.6L, EF-S 15-85 IS USM, Sigma 50 f2.8 macro EX, 430 EX II

  
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Larry ­ Weinman
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Jul 11, 2012 13:11 |  #10

All macro lenses are good I used to have a Tamron 90mm a Sigma 180mm and a canon 100mm non IS. I now have the 100mm L the 180mmL and the MPE 65. My friends shoot with Tokina and Sigma 105 and 150. They are all very good. There are some small differences like a lens barrel that extends and build quality but they are all good, you don't have to worry about getting a bad one. You have to decide on the type of macro you will be doing and what focal length will work for you.


7D Mark II 6D 100mm f 2.8 macro 180mm f 3.5 macro, MP-E-65 300mm f 2.8 500mm f4 Tokina 10-17mm fisheye 10-22mm 17-55mm 24-105mm 70-300mm 70-200 f 2.8 Mk II 100-400mm Mk II 1.4 TCIII 2X TCIII 580EX II 430 EX II MT 24 EX Sigma 150-600

  
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jimewall
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Jul 11, 2012 13:48 as a reply to  @ Larry Weinman's post |  #11

As Larry said, just about any true macro from Canon, Sigma, Tamron, and Tokina will be sharp and provide good IQ. The difference will be in the build and AF speed. Though all will most likely be slower to AF than the same FL non-macro lens. This doesn't matter to some, as we tend to MF macro shots.

IMO I think the FL around 100mm (90/100/105 depending of manufacturer) is probably the best for most people, as it provides a decent working distance from lens to subject. Also IMO if you have the money get a macro lens with stabilization. This will help more with other types of photography than macro (though it can be used there too). This adds to the lens's usefulness. Neither of these is a 100% must (just suggestions), so you can go with the least expensive that you find (again it will be a good lens).

If you just want to try macro, you can get extension tubes. These would be cheaper in price than true macro lens and still give good images (if used with a good lens). They can also be used with any lens (including a future macro for even greater magnification). The drawback is you need more light with more extension, and your lens will only focus close while the tubes are attached.


Thanks for Reading & Good Luck - Jim
GEAR

  
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les_au
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Jul 12, 2012 03:32 |  #12

i can only speak for the sigma 150 f/2.8 macro OS as i own one, it has opened up my eyes to the smaller things that exist in the world. i agree with Jimewall about the tubes as well, i still carry a set even though i have a dedicated macro lens. they make a great light macro kit combined with a nifty fifity


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HunterW
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Jul 12, 2012 04:28 |  #13

i like my hacked 35-80mm
its fun and cheap ($20 ish) if you just want to play around with macro photography


XSi | 18-55 kit lens | 55-250 | zeiss 1.7 50mm

  
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lensmen
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Jul 12, 2012 04:56 as a reply to  @ HunterW's post |  #14

would you consider a few cheaper options, like a reversal ring, extension tubes or close up filters ? They are fairly cheap way to start in the world of macro. I had used close up filter & extension tubes before finally getting the 100L Macro lens. Each has it's pros & cons. It will help to determine if this is sufficient for your calling or it is just too much.

Of course, having a true macro lens is a plus, with the convenience of use. By then, you will be pretty much set to what you really need. Perhaps you will be saving up for that Sigma 150 OS or that 180L. Sometimes, I wished I have a longer reach as the bugs are frightened easily by my breathe

Looking forward to welcoming you to the macros world.

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amfoto1
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Jul 12, 2012 13:06 |  #15

First of all, what lenses do you already have?

In some cases, you can simply get macro extension tubes to use with lenses already in your kit, and those will allow for closer focusing and higher mangnifications. The Canon tubes are quite good (you'd need the "Mark II" version, to use them on EF-S lenses), but are only sold individually in two sizes (25mm and 12mm) and work out to be pretty expensive. The Kenko set of three is equal in quality, give you more sizes (12mm, 20mm, 36mm) to work with and are a better value overall (if you want to use them with an EF-S lens, you need the ones marked "C/AFs", note the small "s"). Less expensive and more plasticky are the ProOptic (Adorama) and Zeikos/Bower/Vivitar/y​ada/yada that are less than $100. Again, if you want to use with an EF-S lens you have to be careful to get the more recent versioin that allows those lenses to mount. There are two grades of these, too: One with metal bayonet mounts and a cheaper one (sometimes under $50) that has plastic bayonet mounts. I wouldn't want the latter, personally.

Finally, there are cheaper macro extension tubesets.... some even less than $10. Forgetaboutit... they lack the electronic contacts so are a pain to use.

Macro extension tubes might be paired up with an 18-55 or 55-250 lens, for example, to make either of those lenses considerably closer focusing. The longer the focal length, the more extension you'll need to get really high magnifications. But there's a lot of flexibility and ever since I learned about using macro extension tubes 25+ years ago, I've made a point of having a set or two in any camera system I've used. They are very hand and versatile. Not to mention, affordable.

True macro lenses are easier to use in some respects, but of course cost much more than using extension tubes with lenses you already have. Typically, too, you'll be able to get to higher magnifications with a true macro lens.

If you decide to go with a true macro lens, next you have to decide a focal length that will work well for you. The focal length decides how much working distance between you and your subject. Too short a focal length will put you right on top of the subject, where you might scare it, cast a shadow on it, or get bitten or stung by it! Too long a focal length gets hard to handle, is more likely to require a slow shutter speed and a tripod.

For most people using a crop sensor camera like the XT, I'd recommend a 60mm to 105mm macro lens to start out. That gives you quite a few to choose among.

Canon 60/2.8 EF-S
Tamron 60/2.0
Sigma 70/2.8
Tamron 90/2.8
Tokina 100/2.8
Canon 100/2.8 USM
Canon 100/2.8L IS
Sigma 105/2.8
Sigma 105/2.8 OS

The shorter focal lengths are more compact, take up less space in your camera bag and weigh less.

The Tamron 60/2.0 is the only f2 lens in the bunch, interesting possiblities to use it for portraiture, too.

The Canon 60/2.8 and Tamron 60/2.0 are the only "Crop Only" lenses in the bunch.

The Canon lenses all have fast, accurate USM autofocus... not a big deal for macro because a lot of the time it's easier to manually focus extreme close-ups. But it definitely can make a lens more widely useful for non-macro shooting. Sigma offers some lenses with HSM, their version of USM. Tamron has just begun offering similar USD on some lenses. If you consider any of their lenses, you'll have to check to see if they have it, if it's a concern to you. Otherwise, test the focus speed of any lens you consider... it can take a macro lens a long, long time to focus, since it has to adjust all the way from infinity to 1:1.

The two Canon 100mm lenses can be fitted with a tripod mounting ring, optionally and at an additional cost (there are cheaper knock-offs on eBay and elsewher). This can be a nice and handy feature in some macro shooting situations.

The Canon 100L and new Sigma 105 OS are the first macros for Canon to offer image stabilization. Be aware that it's of somewhat limited help at high magnifications, might be most useful for non-macro distances. It adds a lot to the cost of the lens. Nice, if budget allows. But frankly I'm not rushing to replace my non-IS 100mm Canon lens.

The Canon lenses are Internal Focusing (IF). This type of lens is larger to start with, as well as more expensive, but doesn't extend during focusing... it's all done internally. Other lenses on the list, you'll have to check for yourself. I imagine most are not IF and macro lenses can and do extend a lot, when focused to their highest magnification. This cuts into your working distance and can change the balance of the lens.

The Canon lenses have focus limiters, a switch that which allows you to restrict the focusing range of the lens and makes for faster focus... tends to be most useful for non-macro shooting.

Pretty much all of the listed lenses have very high image quality. That should the least of your concerns.

One lens I don't recommend to first time macro shooters is the Canon MP-E 65mm. This is a super high magnification lens that's very cool, but harder to work with. It's pretty much "tripod only", but gives 1:1 to 5:1 magnification. It's manual focus only, not IF so it extends tremendously at highest magnification/closest possible focus.

I also don't recommend starting out with one or the other of the 150mm to 180mm lenses, especially folks using crop sensor cameras. These lenses have very shallow depth of field, so force you to stop down more, use slower shutter speeds, and more likely than not need a tripod. They are great, but more specialized. They also tend to be slower focusing, so often are less useful for non-macro purposes.

The Canon TS-E 45mm and 90mm lenses are also useful for close-up and macro work. They are, however, somewhat specialized (allowing some control of perspective and the plane of focus), pricey and manual focus only.

The four macro lenses I use with my Canon kit...

IMAGE: http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4100/5431198523_7f1b5eb06c.jpg
IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5134/5431198807_a406265d4b.jpg
IMAGE: http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4150/5431199189_58692ba80a.jpg
Left rear: Canon EF 100/2.8 USM. Right rear: Canon EF 180/3.5L. Left front: Canon TS-E 45mm. Right front: Tamron SP 90/2.8 (vintage/adapted).

Oh, and incidentally, I sometimes use macro extension tubes along with a macro lens, for higher than 1:1 magnification. Over the years, I know at times I've used extensioin tubes with lenses ranging from 20mm to 500mm.

There are other methods of shooting macro... each with their pluses and minuses:

Close-up filters or "diopters" (Canon 250D, 500D) seem simple, but are limited to lenses with their particular filter thread size. They also can potentially suffer from flare and loss of contrast/color saturation. It helps to buy really high quality, but by the time you do that in some of the larger sizes, you are spending more than a more versatile and universally useful set of macro extension tubes or a long ways toward buying a dedicated macro lens.

Reversing rings are another way.... flipping a lens around and mounting it backwards on the camera makes it focus closely. It can be quite effective. However, you lose the camera to lens contacts doing this, and that makes for manual focus, plus probably much more importantly, manual aperture control. It's possible, but a pain to do.

Stacking lenses is yet another method.... Usually it involves reversing a shorter focal length lens and screwing it into the front of a short telephoto mounted on the camera. The reversed/stacked lens acts as a big fancy close-up lens, in effect. This can work well, but you need lenses that have similar enough filter threads and have somewhat limited choices of focal lengths. For example, a 28mm or 35mm lens might reverse well on a 100mm or 135mm main lens. There also might not be any way to easily shade the reversed lens (now with its bayonet mount serving as the "front" of the lens).

Bellows and helicoids are sort of adjustable extension tubes. I just recently found a helicoid that's offered for use on Canon, which I might give a try. The range of extension is fairly narrow, though... something like 46mmm to 68mm, if memory serves. Still, that might be useful and I intend to try one. It does offer a means of camera to lens communication (so the lens focus and aperture both can be controlled).

Bellows, however, mostly don't have any means of camera to lens communication, that means no autofocus and - more problematic - no control of the lens aperture. I think only one bellows for Canon exists (Novoflex?) that offers control of the aperture, and it's very expensive.

One of my older macro rigs using a bellows...

IMAGE: http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3518/3228968237_e83a724dff.jpg

Wasn't nearly as portable and easy to use as my current rigs...

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7004/6772190839_db977e77d8.jpg
IMAGE: http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5017/5453385847_10a2a40bec.jpg

Alan Myers (external link) "Walk softly and carry a big lens."
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