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Thread started 14 Jul 2012 (Saturday) 02:04
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What is so special about Leica?

 
PFDarkside
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Jul 14, 2012 07:30 |  #16

MF vs 35mm obviously isn't a 1:1 comparison.

I almost want to say that only Leica digital is "overpriced". It's obvious that the lenses are the best around. And for how rugged and well constructed the Leica M film bodies are, they aren't that bad. I think that's the true way to shoot Leica, an older film body, 35mm f/2 lens and a massive stockpile of Tri-X... ;)

From the M digital standpoint they are crafting an ultra luxury good. Additionally, between their low volume, build quality and status brand, it's not that difficult to see how the prices escalate. From an image sensor tech standpoint, Canon and Nikon are ahead of them, but imagine an M9 with a 5D3 or D800 sensor?




  
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bent ­ toe
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Jul 14, 2012 07:47 |  #17

light_pilgrim wrote in post #14714477 (external link)
What is so special about Leica?

Seriously.. i don't know?
I belive your paying more for the brand and the status just like those HI-FI systems and LED tv's.
Sure, Leica is without a doubt a very good camera... but for me, the price is silly.


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cdifoto
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Jul 14, 2012 07:49 |  #18

Back in the day it was durability/craftsmansh​ip and optics. In the digital age it's mostly just optics.


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Jon_Doh
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Jul 14, 2012 07:57 |  #19

A lot of the Leica digital cameras are rebadged Panasonics. Leica claims the software that renders colors, exposure, etc is unique to them, but its still a camera with a Panasonic sensor. The lenses in those cameras are also manufactured by Panasonic under a license from Leica.

I never owned a Leica film camera, but I've shot with them. Shooting slides, there simply was something about the glass that you couldn't quite put your finger on, but which made slides shot with a Leica stand out over slides shot with Canon L glass or Nikon's best. Not only were they ultra sharp and showed so much small detail so clearly, but the color cast and contrast was unique. I used to say that I could pick out Leica slides. I haven't seen that magical transition in pictures to the digital environment and now owning a Leica is more just a statement of prestige and not much else, imo.


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tunin
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Jul 14, 2012 08:21 |  #20

I wonder what would the cost of a CANON/NIKON camera be if it was built the size of an M9 with FF like the M9 and L quality lens?


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PFDarkside
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Jul 14, 2012 08:21 |  #21

Jon_Doh wrote in post #14715050 (external link)
A lot of the Leica digital cameras are rebadged Panasonics. Leica claims the software that renders colors, exposure, etc is unique to them, but its still a camera with a Panasonic sensor. The lenses in those cameras are also manufactured by Panasonic under a license from Leica.

To clarify, those are only the point and shoot models. The X1/X2 and up are designed and made by Leica. Although all their sensors are outsourced. (along with many other camera makers too!)




  
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Gregg.Siam
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Jul 14, 2012 08:24 as a reply to  @ PFDarkside's post |  #22

OH GOD NOOOOO...NOT AGAIN

Please just dig up the old thread from a month or two ago and read it.


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jffielde
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Jul 14, 2012 08:26 |  #23

Beautiful photos, Light Pilgrim. Shows gear matters little in the grand scheme of things.

I think Leica is part emperor has no clothes, as evidenced with the "different" Leica M9s all varying only in color. It's hard to take something completely seriously in the face of the question: "Which Leica M9 goes with these shoes?" On the other hand, I think the size of the camera and lenses is unique. An M9 and four lenses (each regarded at least the equals of the best in the world in their focal lengths) could fit in a cigar box. And there *still* isn't a digital camera camera made that surpasses it as base ISO. It's an interesting mix of smoke, mirrors and photographic greatness.

I collected this list awhile back, and Leica featured prominently in it, as one might expect:

https://photography-on-the.net …/showthread.php​?t=1025674




  
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smythie
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Jul 14, 2012 08:47 |  #24

Been there. Way too much heated arguments.

photography-on-the.net/forum/showthre​ad.php?t=1193052&highl​ight=leica


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rick_reno
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Jul 14, 2012 08:59 |  #25

I used my attorneys M9 at a Porsche driving school event we attended. He didn't know how to use it, and knew I liked cameras so he passed it off to me. t didn't see anything special about it, it did have a very nice "feel" to it.




  
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sjones
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Jul 14, 2012 09:25 |  #26

Thanks for bringing this up; it's going to save me a lot of time: So I reckon I'll just repost from the above linked thread (context might see a little off, as in, "hey, no one has said anything about this in this current thread". But someone will, so...).

Before the cut & pasting, just want to stress that tunin's post regarding cost is something to truly consider. From what I understand, the technology for cramming a full frame sensor in a rangefinder is a bit more complicated, especially when addressing wide angle lens issues.

Also, on a broader level, technical perfection is not what photography is about, not even close; there are so many other factors.

While I'm at it, let me post this link again: http://lavidaleica.com​/content/why-buy-leica (external link)

As I note below, given the gooey & sticky lovefest that L lenses stimulate on this site, let's be careful about deriding Leica because of "fanboism" or it's luxurious appeal.

Finally, keep in mind, rangefinders are not SLRs, and vice versa. There is, as noted in an earlier post, an apples & oranges aspect that often gets overlooked by people questioning Leica's appeal. If you see no use for rangefinders, great, but others do.


June 5:

"So who do you think is going to draw more attention while walking around in public; a guy dangling a Canon 1Ds series with a big white lens, or a guy with a Leica and 35mm lens?

Snob appeal? With Leica, you bet, but also with Nikon's and Canon's high end options, which, by the way, are far more conducive to showing off than a Leica, a brand name that largely only matters to other photographers.

Big honkin' white lens have far more superficial appeal in regards to the general public, and given all of the L deification on this site, let's not get carried away about what is jewelry and what is utilitarian. The number of people who buy DSLRs just to show off is far greater than the number of people who buy Leicas for whatever reason.

I've seen people get endlessly berated on this site for questioning the high cost of L lenses, but when people bring up Zeiss or Leica, it's practically de rigueur on this site to piss on these brands as being just overpriced lavish items.

For all I care, one can get superb shots from an iPhone (not being sarcastic!!!), but for f**k's sake, Leica is the only company right now that produces a full frame digital rangefinder, a professional 35mm camera that cost about the same as Nikon's and Canon's top offerings. If only one company produced a full frame DSLR, how much do you think it would cost?

Gripes about the Leica's sensor, LCD screen, and ISO issues, fine, but taking jabs at a rangefinder for not having autofocus and all the other gunk is pathetically missing the point…outright embarrassing.

Moreover, the M9 is considerably more discreet than are its DSLR's full frame counterparts. And when doing street, it's not just maintaining a low profile (as no camera is invisible) that's important, but the reaction the camera elicits when pointed at someone. I feel a lot more comfortable pointing a smaller camera at someone than I do larger one…aftermath is as much of a consideration as is initial inconspicuousness (unless you are Bruce Gilden).

I use a 60-year-old Leica iiif, and while living in Tokyo, I'd occasionally stop by the local Yodobashi, where I could fondle a 5D; how comically gargantuan it felt. We are discussing two very different types of cameras that both serve their purposes very well for their intended users.

If Leicas seem gratuitously exorbitant, then don't buy one. Very simple. But at least there's another choice, which in the digital world, particularly in terms of full frame sensors, is extremely limited."


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palaima
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Jul 14, 2012 09:40 |  #27

^ you sir have closed the argument :)


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kf095
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Jul 14, 2012 14:06 as a reply to  @ palaima's post |  #28

Yes, it was big thread about Leica.
Most of Leica p&s are made by Panasonic. So, it is only name which drives price up.
RF is different story, currently only one digital RF manufacturer and cameras made not In huge numbers.
This is why it is so expensive.
I have digital 35mm and CZ MF 50mm lens. Still not the same as RF.
I use film FSU RF cameras, one of them is Leica clone. Any modern DSLR is ugly and brick size compare to them. Digital Leica is also nice and compact.


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JAbberwocky
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Jul 14, 2012 14:14 |  #29

No reason to hate on Leica shooters. There aren't any bonus points if you manage to take a decent photograph with better or worse or cheaper or more expensive equipment. A good photo is a good photo and a bad photo is a bad photo, it is not going to matter what you used. The Leica systems can take good photos, that is enough, no reason to hate on them just cause they are more expensive. To the OP, you have a FM account, why not just post to the M8/M9 thread and get your question answered there instead of coming to this forum and pissing on those photographer's photos behind their backs.


Photography is not defined by what gear you own.

  
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cputeq007
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Jul 14, 2012 15:14 |  #30

light_pilgrim wrote in post #14714477 (external link)
I was never interested in Leica as it was way to expensive to think about it. To be honest, I did not even know why it was so expensive, but I never tried to understand. So...I just knew it is a legendary product and it is super expensive and must be good.

It happened that I saw a thread on Fred Miranda's forum about Leica M8/M9 pictures and so I though...let me see how good this thing is. I was surprised that images were really average, nothing good, not even as good as from say modern Canon or Nikon. I saw some images at ISO 1250 and it was as noisy as ISO 25000 on 5D MKIII.

What is the fuss about Leica?

Superb glass with outstanding resolution at low ISO, small/light form factor (for the most part), discreet body and quiet shutter, outstanding build quality and feel.


I guess it's an acquired taste - I'd love to have an M9 with a few small primes to take out when I don't feel like lugging my DSLR but want something better than my S95.


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What is so special about Leica?
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