Setting up 7D's Wireless Flash Ratio Problem?

Setting my Speedlite 430 EX Mk II in Manual Flash Mode to work wirelessly went well. Even when I set it up wirelessly with a ratio of 1/32 Pop-up Flash : 1/1 on the 430 EX Mk II.

But I wanted to experiment and see what combinations looked best. Don't know if this is normal but the 'remote' 430 EXII can be set to anything from 1/1 to 1/128th = Perfect.
But if I use the pop-up flash on the 7D at the same time I can have any combination of power level SO LONG as the Pop up flash 'ratio' number is 1/4 or smaller!

eg I can set up the 430 as 1/1 and the Pop-up at 1/16 or 1/8 or 1/4 .. But it won't let you increase the power level on the 7D i.e. to say 1/2?
Is this working as it should?

How are you setting this up? I can set the popup from 1/1 to 1/128 with the 580EX II and 7D; the 430 should go to 1/64, I THINK.

Snydremark wrote in post #14732072
How are you setting this up? I can set the popup from 1/1 to 1/128 with the 580EX II and 7D; the 430 should go to 1/64, I THINK.

Hi it does go to 1/128 on the popup but in wireless mode and using a ration I can set the 430 anywhere from 1/1 to 1/128 but then I can only set the pop up from 1/128 to 1/4
I t will not go to say 1/4 or the incremental 1/3 stops inbetween.
Should it be like that?

I see where you're at. It does appear to be that way, although I'm not knowledgeable enough to know why.

This is just a guess... that the built in flash is wimpy and probably not strong enough to provide 1:2 or 1:1 alongside the much more powerful 430EX. I bet there's a limitation designed into the wireless programming, for that reason. You might have better luck with a pair of 430EX.

But in all honesty, with a pair of flashes I don't see using less than about 1:4 ratio anyway. With bigger studio lighting, I rarely use less than a 1:3 ratio.

No, that's not it. He's not setting a ratio between two flashes, he's trying to set the internal flash's power in relation to its own full power.
The camera doesn't even know if there's a 430 EX II or anything out there, as a slave.

The reason for this is instead that when using the built-in flash as a control device for the external slave flashes, the internal flash must not only provide a charge for the illumination of it's own part of the subject, but also send out control flashes right before exposure. The tiny little capacitor in the camera can't hold a charge that's enough to both allow the flash to send out the 40-bit burst of information which is required for wireless control and then, a fraction of a second later, fire itself for illumination purpose at full power, 1/1. Thus, when using it as a wireless controller, you are limited to a max power of 1/4 of full power.

apersson850 wrote in post #14734941
No, that's not it. He's not setting a ratio between two flashes, he's trying to set the internal flash's power in relation to its own full power.
The camera doesn't even know if there's a 430 EX II or anything out there, as a slave.

The reason for this is instead that when using the built-in flash as a control device for the external slave flashes, the internal flash must not only provide a charge for the illumination of it's own part of the subject, but also send out control flashes right before exposure. The tiny little capacitor in the camera can't hold a charge that's enough to both allow the flash to send out the 40-bit burst of information which is required for wireless control and then, a fraction of a second later, fire itself for illumination purpose at full power, 1/1. Thus, when using it as a wireless controller, you are limited to a max power of 1/4 of full power.

I see and tend to agree with the logic, except I find it a strange that in ETTL mode, not as in my scenario [I.e. in Manual Mode] you can set the full spectrum either in favour of the 430 EX II or the camera's Pop up flash!

But at least I know its not broken becuase you can't set more than a 1/4 of the pop up flashes power level,
Thanks for looking anyway
Regards Peter

Submariner wrote in post #14737354
I see and tend to agree with the logic, except I find it a strange that in ETTL mode, not as in my scenario [I.e. in Manual Mode] you can set the full spectrum either in favour of the 430 EX II or the camera's Pop up flash!

I believe the 430's output is 'crippled' in E-TTL to allow ratios with the popup. Also, note that you can't go any further right than 1:1 on the ratio scale (slave:popup), i.e., 1:2 isn't allowed.

The output of the 430 isn't at all crippled when used as a slave with a 7D. However, if you do want to use ratios, it's rather obvious that a 1:1 between two units, one with guide number 13 and the other with 43 will impose a limit on what you can do. If they are sitting side by side, both aimed directly at the subject, the 430 will easily crank out as much light as the internal one does.
But let's say that you set the 430 to bounce in a wall and have it zoomed pretty wide, then suddenly they are at about par.

As pointed out above, when using the internal and an external, you can't set a ratio where the internal is more powerful than the external one. But if you just carry the external slave far enoguh away (still assuming that the light to control it can reach it), then the internal flash could still outperform the external one, just because of the different ranges to the subject.

Still, when using the built-in as both a slave controller and source of illumination, then you have to realize that the internal one can mainly be used as a touch-up light, to reduce a shadow caused by light coming from the side and such.