Favorite non-Canon flash units

I'd be interested in the results, please keep us up to date

Ordered a temporary flash bracket to get this heavy 54MZ off the shoe, 'cause it makes it so unbalanced.
Let there be light. Works well with the 14mm WA on Auto Thyristor A mode, 200ASA f2.8 in Av mode, interior with the LS2 PJ diffuser, and exterior with falloff at about 20ft. Fast recharge too.

Boy, I used the ProMaster at a school Christmas show last night and it performed admirably! I'm a little irked that when I went to Amazon.com and searched for "Promaster 7500" I got no responses, so I bought it at a local store for $200. A buddy of mine searched just for "Promaster" and scrolled down the page of replies and found the 7500 for about $139, so I'm a bit miffed. But my experience with it is it's a great flash for the money. Be aware of that glitch if anyone goes looking for it on Amazon.

To sum up the most popular choices here, the Sigma 500 Super and the Metz 54 seem most popular. The Sigma is on Amazon for about $230. Near as I can tell there's no functional or features difference between the Sigma and the ProMaster except the ISO 100 (105mm) GN is 138 for the ProMaster and it's 161 for the Sigma. The Sigma has the 14mm diffuser built in to the unit so you won't lose it, the Promaster has a clip-on separate diffuser which you have to take on/off if needed and carry around in your pocket. The Promaster has the 'wink light' for use with bounce, like the Metz, which I really like and the Sigma does not have that (nor does the Canon). All in all, I came to the conclusion that the ProMaster was a better value, and I'd take the lower GN in trade for the wink light. For me, I wouldn't spend the extra $90 for the extra power with the Sigma. Oh, and the ProMaster has a metal hotshoe, for what that's worth. No worries about breaking it.

The Metz 54 MZ-4 has the wink light and a GN of 177 for ISO 100 (105mm), but it's $390 on Amazon! That's as much as the Canon 580EX, which has a GN for ISO 100 (105mm) of 191, making it the biggest light blaster in the bunch. Actually, on Amazon, the Canon 580ES is $374, coming in a little less than the Metz.

All of these flashes work with the latest Rebel XT firmware (mine had a sticker on it stating it's compatability, thanks again to Curtis). All of them bounce and swivel as far around as 180 degrees straight back. All will synch with the second shutter curtain. There may be some arcane little nit that one does the others don't do, but I certainly don't know what it is. I haven't tested any but the ProMaster, but my results are terrific, especially using bounce with the wink light to lighten up the eye sockets. I think it's the best value for the dollar, but there may be something about one or the other someone is willing to pay for, it's a very personal thing.

Here's a little table I made up to compare them, all GN are for ISO 100 at 105mm zoom because that's what was reported.

Model // GN // Wink (y/n) // Price // GN-price ratio

ProMaster 7500 DX (v.2) // 138 // Yes // $139 // 1.0
Sigma 500 Super // 161 // No // $230 // 0.7
Metz 54 MZ-4 // 177 // Yes // $390 // 0.45
Canon 580EX // 191 // No // $374 // 0.51

Thanks for all the help, guys! It was quite an education. For now, I'm really happy with the ProMaster (well except for the fact that I overpaid for it because I couldn't find it on Amazon) and I feel it suits my needs in terms of power so for me, it is certainly the best value. I don't think there's a nickel's worth of practical difference functionally, but YMMV.

ProMaster 7500 DX version 2 . . . jpreviews says. . .HIGHLY RECOMMENDED!

later edit By the way, I found the Metz 54 MZ-3 on Amazon for $335, but without much descriptive detail. It does have the same wink light feature, and if an earlier poster is correct in that it works for Canon. . .if it has the same GN as the MZ-4, then the GN-to-price ration for that unit is 0.53. It says it's for Canon. If it works with the latest firmware updates, then I'd say, yes, it's a better value thant the MZ-4 version. Make sure it does work with the latest camera, though. I would have had an issue with the version 1 of the ProMaster 7500 for sure!

JPC

John,
Glad you like your Promaster. I don't think you overpaid for it. I suspect the one your friend found for $139 might have been the old version. It's good to patronise the local camera shop once in a while, anyway. You may need them someday!

You missed a couple things. First, the Sigma has high-speed sync, the Promaster doesn't. Being able to use a fast shutter with flash is useful in many situations, but that's for another thread. Second, the Sigma has FEC, which the Promaster lacks. Not an issue if your camera has FEC, but for my wife's 300D it will be a godsend. Third, the Sigma can be used in a master/slave setup with E-TTL II metering. The Promaster has only a normal slave mode where you need to adjust the power manually. These differences may not all be applicable to everyone, but they're worth mentioning. The high-speed sync alone made me go with the Sigma.

A note about the wink light on the Promaster. I have found that it tends to generate redeye. So if I want to create catchlights and add a little direct fill when I'm bouncing the flash, I just use the old "index card & rubber band" trick.

Bottom line - I think both the Promaster and the Sigma are great units for the money, providing many of the benefits of the 580EX for much less cost.

Hmmm. Figures that winker would cause more red-eye as it's more in-line with the lens. I'll have to watch for that. I still carry index cards and rubber bands around instead of all these new fangled bounce toys, can you tell I was doing this 40 years ago? Hehehe.

Sorry I misse some of the feature differences. What does the high speed synch do for you? I thought they all topped out at 1/200?? And I don't get the slave thing. Once they're off the camera aren't they all manual slaves? I mean all I know is they 'see' the main flash and go off. Can you elaborate on the differences?

Thanks for not letting me steer folks wrong, though. I didn't know I missed all that. For folks with my experience level and for our purposes, though, that ProMaster is one heck of a value.

I did like stopping in the camera shop. But that was a version 2 on the Amazon site, it was mentioned. Paying a little more is OK. Paying $60 more, or 42% higher than Amazon (OK, maybe 35% after shipping) is a bit much. But I'm happy!

High-speed sync, otherwise known as "FP" flash (I forgot what FP stands for) allows you to use flash at shutter speeds faster than the camera's flash sync speed. It actually emits many smaller bursts of flash, milliseconds apart, while the shutter activates. It reduces the range some, and the faster the shutter, the more the range is reduced.
Useful for:
1) Fill flash in bright sunlight, where you want to keep your aperture open for shallow DOF
2) Fill flash with long lenses, handheld - Sometimes 1/250 isn't fast enough to prevent camera shake with a long lens.
3) Sports and other action shots, where you want a fast shutter to stop motion.

As for the E-TTL master/slave setup, basically the master (on the camera) communicates with 1 or two slaves via pulses of light. You can set different ratios between them, and the cool thing is it still works in E-TTL or E-TTL II mode so there's less trial-and-error. With a traditional slave setup you can't use E-TTL because the slaves would be activated by the pre-flash. I only have one Sigma unit so I haven't used it, but seems pretty magical to me. Canon has a similar system with the EX flashes.

I just remembered this thread from Schmoelzel that shows his expert use of high speed sync. He used shutter speeds up to 1/8000.

Wow! Curtis, you are a veritable font of knowledge. Preesh!

That other thread is amazing! The photos of that little girl outdoors, at f/1.4 for shallow DOF and shot at 1/4000 and 1/8000 with fill flash are stunning. Simply stunning!

You know, when you shoot with the same equipment for 30 years, that was state of the art when you bought it, leaves you thinking you're still shooting with some pretty sophisticated stuff. It's like Rip Van Winkle waking up after his long nap.

Frankly, I wish I hadn't moved so fast on that flash unit. For what I want, it's adequate. But that thread with Julia fill-flashed makes me realize I'll be upgrading the flash within the year. Probably to the Sigma.

You know, this forum is great for learning, but I can see it's also going to cost me a lot of money. If I continue to hang around here, there's no way I'm going to sit tight for 30 years with the same equipment. Dammit!

Thanks again. Anyone following this thread should go check out that thread Curtis linked right above this. The ProMaster is a great, cheap, versatile flash unit. But what that fellow did on those shots of his daughter are magic. And, apparently, you can't get there with the ProMaster.

John

That's because Schmoelzel is a magician.
Check out his other posts when you get a chance. In the world of flash photography, high speed sync is the neatest thing since sliced bread. But most of his shots are taken without flash, and with a 1D, a 4 megapixel camera. Sometimes it's not about the equipment.

Focal Plane. Basically the flash outputs light for the duration the shutter is open, rather than regular action of opening the shutter, the flash firing, and the shutter closing again.

Thanks for the link, Tim.
It's funny how old terminology persists long after the original meaning has become obsolete. Just like "f-stop" and "bulb" shutter speed.

Yeah, the MZ-3 is basically identical to the MZ-4. It also has HSS (High Speed Sync) - basically it's a FP setting. In addition, it also has a stroboscopic setting, which allows you to take cool shots of fast moving things with a slow shutter speed - e.g. in the manual the example they have is of a hurdler leaping over a hurdle. It also has the option of getting the slave digital shoe for wireless TTL shooting - all in all, I am really impressed with, and really like the Metz flashes

I guess most or all shutters are FP now. Back in the old days, when I was new to photography... months ago now... things were exactly the same as they are now

Another term is motor drive. I don't know what else to call the mode where the camera takes frame after frame as quick as it can. Continuous drive? It just doesn't sound the same.

tim wrote:
I guess most or all shutters are FP now. Back in the old days, when I was new to photography... months ago now... things were exactly the same as they are now

Another term is motor drive. I don't know what else to call the mode where the camera takes frame after frame as quick as it can. Continuous drive? It just doesn't sound the same.

Burst mode?

"Machine gun mode"