Extension to the original job - Not sure how to handle

On the suggestion of someone here on POTN, I worked out an arrangement with a local high-end hair salon to do staff pictures and salon pictures to use online and in promotional brochures. In exchange, I'll get credit and can leave business cards and postcards with my info for their clients.

Now I'm being asked if I'd be interested in doing editorial shoots, class shoots, etc. for them. I'm interested, but I'm not sure if I should charge my typical rates for this or negotiate some fixed amount for this extra work. Is there a guideline here on what to charge for editorial shoots? While I've shot events, including weddings, I mostly do portrait work where I charge a sitting fee and sell prints. So I'm not sure how to handle something like this. Suggestions appreciated!

I have done something similar with a hair school here. I charged the school for what is specifically for the school. I didn't charge the school to come and do the student portfolios. The students paid for that themselves if they wanted one. And as there are 50 students I gave a discounted rate as it was very few setups but several clients at the same time. We did 5, 3 hour shoots as each student could only do 1 or 2 clients at each session. But not every student was included in every shoot.

There is no real guideline to follow. I just added up my location fee (times how many times you set up), hourly fee, edit fee, and print fee(5, 11X14 each student), then divided it by how many students signed up for a portfolio, then added a honest amount of mark up.

At some point, you'll need to stop being the guy that's 'free' and start being the guy that's 'worth the cost'

Mark1 wrote in post #14737806
I have done something similar with a hair school here. I charged the school for what is specifically for the school. I didn't charge the school to come and do the student portfolios. The students paid for that themselves if they wanted one. And as there are 50 students I gave a discounted rate as it was very few setups but several clients at the same time. We did 5, 3 hour shoots as each student could only do 1 or 2 clients at each session. But not every student was included in every shoot.

I also seen the other thread that suggested contacting the higher end hair salons, you have a good point about the beauty schools! I was looking at them as a place that offers cheap hair cuts, not as a place that has a ton of students that need a portfolio.

sdipirro wrote in post #14737478
On the suggestion of someone here on POTN, I worked out an arrangement with a local high-end hair salon to do staff pictures and salon pictures to use online and in promotional brochures. In exchange, I'll get credit and can leave business cards and postcards with my info for their clients.

Now I'm being asked if I'd be interested in doing editorial shoots, class shoots, etc. for them. I'm interested, but I'm not sure if I should charge my typical rates for this or negotiate some fixed amount for this extra work. Is there a guideline here on what to charge for editorial shoots? While I've shot events, including weddings, I mostly do portrait work where I charge a sitting fee and sell prints. So I'm not sure how to handle something like this. Suggestions appreciated!

What is your time worth to you?

GerryDavid wrote in post #14737950
I also seen the other thread that suggested contacting the higher end hair salons, you have a good point about the beauty schools! I was looking at them as a place that offers cheap hair cuts, not as a place that has a ton of students that need a portfolio.

And it is a "short" school so there is a new upper level class every year that needs a port.

The salons are a good idea. But they are a once every 5 year type client. Once they have what they want.... most wait till the hair in the pics are way out of date to do them again. One line I like to use when they have magazine pictures taped to the wall..... "Magazine pictures on the wall are great for kids to aspire too... Do you want to show your customers what you wish you could do.... Or what you CAN do." They get it was not a good idea rather quickly after that.

The hair salon thing I was thinking of is offer the owner/main hair dresser a free portrait in exchange for displaying your work in the salon which you can rotate monthly and business cards for them to hand out when they hear of someone that is intersted in pictures. as an added bonus they get a 10% referral reward. The customer spends $1000 on a family portrait, they get $100 of that for giving them a piece of paper. the owner gets their favorite picture from their session printed and displayed in their salon for a year and after that they have a chance to buy the print at a slight discount.

One salon near by already has ties to a photographer, im asking my spokesmodels what the other good salons are in the area. Being a guy I dont know these things.

the one that already has ties to another studio, Im tempted to ask how healthy the relationship is and mention what I had in mind, but then again I dont wnat to step on other peoples toes, but again this is business.

GerryDavid, maybe it was you who made the suggestion to someone in another thread that I happened to read and think was a great idea. That's pretty much the initial proposal I made to them, and they seemed to like it. I didn't (yet) say anything about a referral bonus, but I have something in place for that on my website. The original idea was to have prints hanging in the salon with my name on them (and cards to give to customers). They asked about expanding on that slightly and using the pictures on their website and promotional materials. I'm thinking that's not all that different except that it hits a wider audience, but I was wondering if I should negotiate fees for commercial usage of the images like that. Then they asked if I'd be interested in doing editorial shoots for them and to shoot a class. I said I was interested, but I haven't discussed the terms yet. I'll be discussing those terms shortly, and I'm still at a loss for how to do this (the reason I'm asking here). As I said, this is different than any sort of work I've done before. So if I'm understanding this correctly, I should have an hourly fee (that I do already have), an edit fee, and a print fee. Prints ordered through my website have a markup that is supposed to cover my editing work, and that's how I simplified it for portrait work. For an editorial type of shoot, won't they spell out what they have in mind in terms of number of images, etc. and want to talk about a fixed price for that? I've seen quite a range online for editorial shoots. To me, it sounds like pricing a wedding...where the photographer looks at the work and time involved and quotes a price. I'm just not sure how to do that for something like this.

so you will be hanging pictures of thier customers with the hair done by them in the salon? That would make it harder to rotate hte images to keep it fresh.

my goal if I can set this up is to print 3 new pictures each month, put them in salon A, move a's old pictures to b, b to c, etc.

since the picturse are to advertise I would mention that you need to charge an hourly rate to cover your time and expenses, say $100 an hour minimum 3 hours or something? But you do risk alienating them and loosing your display and free referrals.

if its minimal work I say do it as a business favor since they are referring you business.

For the beauty school, how did you contact them to see if they were interested? I may have to do this in my area

How much did you charge each student and what did you give them? Printed port? digital files for online port?

and how many hair cutters do we need? They seem to be mass producing them these days, before long there will be a 1:1 ratio of hair cutters and customers In the town my studio is in, it seems like every other store is a hair salon. My studio shares the same building as a hair salon

This is what I've suggested in the past, and what works for me. The display work is not of "hair clients" but of my clients.

You want to display the kind of work you want to sell to the kind of clients you want to have. Just getting "credit" for work your clients won't see is not a benefit.

If that was the original suggestion that I read, then I misunderstood it. I didn't see any reason why the salon would want to display my client pictures, and part of the reason I'm doing this is to acquire more clients (and pictures). But I would try to do work that's representative of the type of work I do for any pictures they need and want to display. There's a certain amount of work I'm willing to do for them in exchange for getting my name out there, but for the additional work they're now asking about, I want to charge something reasonable for that. And that's what I'm still struggling with.

sdipirro wrote in post #14745049
If that was the original suggestion that I read, then I misunderstood it. I didn't see any reason why the salon would want to display my client pictures, and part of the reason I'm doing this is to acquire more clients (and pictures). But I would try to do work that's representative of the type of work I do for any pictures they need and want to display. There's a certain amount of work I'm willing to do for them in exchange for getting my name out there, but for the additional work they're now asking about, I want to charge something reasonable for that. And that's what I'm still struggling with.

My proposition is that the owner/manager gets a free family portrait and an attractive art display. Over time (with success of the display) I would tend to use more of the clients I gained from the display (which would be his clients as well).

Yes, you would want to quote a regular price for any other work you do for them. They're small businesspeople, so they ought to understand.

GerryDavid wrote in post #14742730
For the beauty school, how did you contact them to see if they were interested? I may have to do this in my area

I got in by using their students to do hair/make up on shoots. One of my clients is good friends with the school owners and uses the students for her fashion shows, etc...etc.. The instructors saw the final product and asked about doing things for the school.

GerryDavid wrote in post #14742730
How much did you charge each student and what did you give them? Printed port? digital files for online port?

What you need to charge is simple. Just add up what I mentioned already and you have your cost, then add a fair profit. I do them as a set product for a flat fee. If they want more it is a separate transaction. They are given prints. They can use as a port to get hired at a shop, then hang on the wall once they are hired.

GerryDavid wrote in post #14742730
and how many hair cutters do we need? They seem to be mass producing them these days, before long there will be a 1:1 ratio of hair cutters and customers In the town my studio is in, it seems like every other store is a hair salon. My studio shares the same building as a hair salon

Beauty school is no different than any other school...... Statistically, only about 20-30% work in the field of their studies.

RDKirk wrote in post #14745420
My proposition is that the owner/manager gets a free family portrait and an attractive art display.

I would think this is a good idea for those that do family portraits. It could be a good way to at least get in the door and show them the quality of your work. I dont do family work, so I cant say how well it works.

What kind of work do you do Mark? and thanks for the response.