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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 19 Jul 2012 (Thursday) 00:51
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Are female photographers getting popular easier than males?

 
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Jul 19, 2012 23:42 |  #16

Here I go with the stereotypes....In some cases, a woman can perceive another woman as competition for "her man".


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Jul 19, 2012 23:44 |  #17
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rick_reno wrote in post #14739100 (external link)
there shouldn't be, there are more men than women on the planet.

What's the percentage?  :p


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Jul 20, 2012 01:26 |  #18

Interesting comments so far. I think many of you do have a lot of good points.

I absolutely think it has something to do with women preferring women when it comes to taking their photographs. I guess, in wedding photo, the bride is more often the one who's in charge of the choice of photographer for the wedding than the groom.


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Jul 20, 2012 03:51 |  #19

I think it depends on what people want. Women photographers tend to hit the soft sweet look a la The Notebook and men tend to go for the more dramatic sexy look a la Pretty Woman.

I notice a lot of women putting out the same stuff though...one photographer seems interchangeable with another for the most part. It makes me curious about their pricing. If they don't have a specific style they might be pushing price. On that basis I'd rather be less popular and get better fees.


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Jul 20, 2012 05:08 |  #20

All generalities are false......

Including this one.


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MikeFairbanks
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Jul 20, 2012 07:12 |  #21

And never, ever speak in absolutes. It's always a bad idea.


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Jul 20, 2012 08:54 |  #22

MikeFairbanks wrote in post #14743749 (external link)
And never, ever speak in absolutes. It's always a bad idea.

There is absolutely no evidence to support this.


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nmphoto
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Jul 20, 2012 10:33 |  #23

I have thought this same thing for a few years now. And I absolutely think there is evidence to support this theory. I'm not saying its a bad thing, but it does seem to be happening, especially in my area for one.

Think about it, who do you think came up with this Vintage trend? Probably not a guy. Look at all the feminine products being marketed not just to women photogs, but end products and things like that.

My guess is digital has made it more accessible to pick up a camera after having a newborn or a marriage and then the thought, "hey I like this, let me try to make a career out of it."

Your work will speak for itself however. I don't think most care if a male or female is behind the camera. I think the only time a woman would be chosen with thought would be for boudoir and weddings as a second shooter with the females getting ready shots. I've had that happen to my business multiple times.


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Jul 20, 2012 10:51 |  #24

nmphoto wrote in post #14744533 (external link)
I have thought this same thing for a few years now. And I absolutely think there is evidence to support this theory. I'm not saying its a bad thing, but it does seem to be happening, especially in my area for one.

Think about it, who do you think came up with this Vintage trend? Probably not a guy. Look at all the feminine products being marketed not just to women photogs, but end products and things like that.

My guess is digital has made it more accessible to pick up a camera after having a newborn or a marriage and then the thought, "hey I like this, let me try to make a career out of it."

Your work will speak for itself however. I don't think most care if a male or female is behind the camera. I think the only time a woman would be chosen with thought would be for boudoir and weddings as a second shooter with the females getting ready shots. I've had that happen to my business multiple times.

I will say that the best newborn/baby shots I tend to see are from women. Women get all gooey around kids and babies in ways men just don't, and it shines through in their images (assuming they know what they're doing)
Semi-related to your post. I actually encountered the stereotypical MWC the other day while taking my girls to the park. I had my camera with me and this woman asked what kind of camera I was using. "Canon." Then she asked what body/lens (despite standing right next to me, while I'm holding the camera up next to my face), "5d2 and 50mm" Then she tells me she used to have one too, says something along the lines of "nice camera" and walks back to her friend.
Not two seconds later I hear her telling her friend how she used to be a pro photographer. How she started taking newborn pictures of her daughter when she was born, and since everyone liked them, it seemed like a good idea to go pro. You can imagine the rest of her story...she bought a proper DSLR, went pro, got well known and successful, became so busy she found she didn't have any time for her family so she had to give it up. Of course, her daughter is only three years old, so in the span of 3 years she managed to buy a camera, learn to use it, go pro, become incredibly successful, makes gobs of money, and retire. All on Facebook. Honestly, if I didn't know better, I'd have thought MWAC Attack was putting on a satire show right behind me.


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Jul 20, 2012 11:08 |  #25

Todd Lambert wrote in post #14738457 (external link)
Most requested aspect of a doctor, is that she is female.

I don't buy that as most of the women I have known and my wife wouldn't think of letting a female GYN examine them.

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Jul 20, 2012 11:42 |  #26

Hermanssson wrote in post #14738251 (external link)
Do you think female photographers are getting popular, wide-spread, credited and hired easier and more effectively than us male photographers?

I personally do not think so, but I know a few photographers who believe it to be absolutely true and they all have the same reasons as to why, most of which are simply excuses for the complainer’s shortcomings.

My favorites are women can relate and communicate with other women better then men or women are more sensitive then men and is reflected in their work.

The truth be told, if a guy is getting his butt wooped by a woman over that kind of stuff he needs to take a long look in a mirror and consider charting a new course in the sales department.

While not the same industry I know a guy who is the program director of an AC (easy listening) station in the Miami market, a station which just happens to be number one in the market, book after book after book, his audience demo is almost exclusively women in fact his station has more women listeners than the next three stations under his combined.

So how is it possible for a male not a female to so intimately understand what women are seeking in a tight and tough market like Miami?

The answer is he never rests on his laurels he is constantly researching and studying his market, instead of following trends he causes them and because of that hard work advertisers (clients) who want to market to women in Miami see his station as money well spent.

This is his philosophy a lot of which can be applied to photography and women.

philosophy


To compete, a radio station must occupy a singular position in the mind of the Listener. For a radio station to succeed, the Listener must realize one clear benefit. 5 Steps to Posturing the Station for Success

  • Evaluate. Analyze the market thoroughly. Research not only music preferences, but competitors, all media and technology usage, marketing and lifestyles. Ethnographic/one-on-one interviews and relaxed, properly-moderated focus group settings are invaluable for discovering key Listener issues.
  • Define. Identify a narrow ‘laser-target’ audience for the service. Develop a complete lifestyle model of the individual Listener. Establish a comprehensive plan for creating content unerringly aimed at this target.
  • Distinguish. Build the product and focus it to hyper-serve the target audience. Everything on and off the air -- including the website, the logo, even the lobby decor -- must reinforce the station’s unique position and demonstrate its benefit.
  • Implement. Aggressively put the plan into motion -- and see it through. Be certain that everyone committed to the product’s success has a clear understanding of the objectives, and makes a positive contribution.
  • Evaluate. This whole process is cyclical. A service developed in this fashion is on a collision course with success. But it’s then the process must begin anew -- to extend the product’s life-cycle and maintain focus.
‘Pick a target, pick a hill.’

As imperative as identifying the target Listener, is the value of point-of-purchase marketing. By reaching out to the Listener at the time and place she’s most inclined to use your product, you stand to most effectively influence her listening behavior. E-mail, telemarketing and direct mail messages delivered to the workplace are particularly effective for driving on-air and online consumption of AC radio.

Bright, Tight, Brief, Real & Resonant


An external marketing focus can’t triumph without a corresponding internal discipline. Everything that happens on the air should score high marks in five basic principles:
  • Bright. Know what the Listener likes, feels, understands, is talking about today--and talk about it too. Share your enthusiasm for the music and her daily experience.
  • Tight. Always flow forward. Each hour of programming should be considered a seamless, produced whole -- never perceived as a series of individual elements.
  • Brief. Talk about one thing and one thing only, each time you open the mike; anything else clouds the content and confuses the Listener. Less is more.
  • Real. Talk about your experience, framed in the Listener’s perspective. What passions do the two of you share? What will be said today that only you can say?
  • Resonant. Everything you say must have immediacy and meaning -- resonance -- with the Listener’s life ... or else it’s a waste of her time. Your content should balance evenly among the music, station promotion and audience activity.
Remember: ‘local trumps lists.’ In choosing between material that intersects the Listener’s daily experience in her hometown ... and a magazine-article list of ‘top five ways to groom your dog’ -- the local content always wins her heart.

What Do Women Want?


A landmark study by BrandChamps for Meredith Publishing revealed the three experiences the Listener wants -- and needs:
  • To reconnect: With herself, her significant other, her friends and her family.
  • To rejuvenate: Downtime to recharge her ‘life batteries’.
  • To reinvent: The opportunity to explore new opportunities and expand her worldview.
When crafting each promotion and each marketing message for an AC station, appeal to at least one of these needs.

'Surf, Sun & Sand': What Are Your Colors?

A Listener may only give you 15 minutes to touch her emotions. Wisely, the programmer strives to make each quarter-hour a musical microcosm of the station: a representative balance of styles, eras, tempos and textures.

A more engaging and visceral approach begins with considering the experience the station should offer the Listener. In Miami, it’s analogous to a day at the beach -- where the three key ingredients are the surf, the sun and the sand. Associating those elements with three primary colors -- blue, tangerine and taupe -- not only provides the station with a consistent palette and design platform, but even becomes a template for the music-scheduling philosophy.

The core sound of the station -- 50% of the library -- is coded ‘surf’. Another 25% of each category is the happier, poppier (usually more uptempo) ‘sun’ titles. And 25% is ‘sand’ -- the edgier, slightly harder tunes. Song sets are balanced to avoid direct transitions from ‘tangerine’ to ‘taupe’, always flowing through a ‘blue’ title to reinforce the station’s musical essence.

Ratings Drive Rates ... Drive Revenue

The successful radio programmer has always possessed an amalgam of attributes: attention to detail; a good ear for music and other program product; technical and production skills; awareness of emerging technologies; a mastery of the marketplace -- both statistically and emotionally.

The successful Program Director tempers this show business sense with a bottom-line sensibility. One important quality is the ability to maintain an understanding of, and positive relationship with the sales engine. My aunt, a career broadcaster herself, gave me sage advice 30 years ago which remains the foundation of my fiscal and operational philosophy: ‘Watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.’

‘The role of the Manager is facilitator, expediter, barrier-destroyer,

diffuser of good news.’

-- Tom Peters

The most effective organizations are built of diverse people who offer a broad catalog of skills yet share common values. As a manager and team-leader, those values I encourage and prize above all others are initiative, versatility and attention to detail. It’s amazing what can be accomplished by a small, but cohesive, passionate and focused team. I’ve repeatedly discovered that a collaborative environment is crucial to creativity; truly, ‘all of us is smarter than each of us.’

‘You can think in black & white, and still imagine a zebra.’

When belts tighten and resources dwindle, innovation and creativity become essential to maximizing the station’s marketing investment. Growing up around pressmen, I learned the least expensive printed piece to produce is one color -- black ink -- on white paper. Yet consider one of the most exotic animals on the planet: The zebra is, essentially, a ‘one-color job’ -- black stripes on a white horse.

Moral: You don’t need lavish budgets to engage the Listener’s imagination and passion -- and with external marketing, even a simple but well-designed and executed campaign will be marvelously effective.

Thoughts on What’s Up Around the Bend

Electronic measurement will surely engorge an AC station’s cume. We’ll be able to boast perhaps double the audience of working women. But no matter how accurate the new mechanism, all the methodology will do is measure exposure to radio -- not engagement with radio. Our audiences will be larger ... but no more responsive (or valuable) to our advertisers.

In this era of continually emerging technologies, music alone is a commodity -- a need that can be satisfied at any one of a dozen destinations. The future for free, local radio is to offer unique, interactive, unduplicatible content that is ours and ours alone. If we are to engage our Listener ... if we are to connect with our Listener -- we must speak to her. We must speak with her.

In gaining her trust, in arousing her passion, in appealing to her ‘tribal’ sense of community -- we create a credible, durable brand; one which ultimately can be leveraged to deliver superior results for our Clients.

At our core, we are in the content business. Our present delivery system is grounded in a self-limiting, single-stream ‘push’ model. We must retool our product as a website that happens to have a transmitter attached (rather than the inverse). Ultimately, the broadcast signal will act as a 24/7 billboard or promotional ‘sampler’ for the nearly limitless menu of on-demand, customizable, interactive and Listener-generated content found online.

A Postscript on Excellence

Despite the massive change which has swept our industry, the days of legendary radio are not behind us. I was fortunate to experience at least the waning of WABC, WLS, KHJ and the other Top-40 giants. These are the stations that set the standards, the stations they write books about. These stations were the product of an unending, unrelenting, passionate quest for Excellence.

And that’s why I run my race. I want them to write a book about my radio station, too.

http://robsidney.blogs​pot.com/p/philosophy.h​tml (external link)

Wayne

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Buckeye1
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Jul 20, 2012 11:47 |  #27

I think that is your personal problem :D

Channel One wrote in post #14744699 (external link)
I don't buy that as most of the women I have known and my wife wouldn't think of letting a female GYN examine them.

Wayne




  
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Jul 20, 2012 11:50 |  #28

That is bit of a stretch...

Todd Lambert wrote in post #14738457 (external link)
To me, it makes sense.. I equate it to gynecologists. Most requested aspect of a doctor, is that she is female.

Not to say that there aren't young upcoming male gynos out there, but it seems like that is a realm that has just slowly been absorbed by the female demographic.

I think male portrait photographers are faced with a similar predicament. It doesn't seem to matter as much in wedding photography, and of course, woman are a very rare species when it comes to landscape/wildlife shoots.




  
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Jul 20, 2012 12:42 |  #29

Channel One wrote in post #14744848 (external link)
I personally do not think so, but I know a few photographers who believe it to be absolutely true and they all have the same reasons as to why, most of which are simply excuses for the complainer’s shortcomings.

My favorites are women can relate and communicate with other women better then men or women are more sensitive then men and is reflected in their work.

The truth be told, if a guy is getting his butt wooped by a woman over that kind of stuff he needs to take a long look in a mirror and consider charting a new course in the sales department.

While not the same industry I know a guy who is the program director of an AC (easy listening) station in the Miami market, a station which just happens to be number one in the market, book after book after book, his audience demo is almost exclusively women in fact his station has more women listeners than the next three stations under his combined.

So how is it possible for a male not a female to so intimately understand what women are seeking in a tight and tough market like Miami?

The answer is he never rests on his laurels he is constantly researching and studying his market, instead of following trends he causes them and because of that hard work advertisers (clients) who want to market to women in Miami see his station as money well spent.

This is his philosophy a lot of which can be applied to photography and women.

philosophy


To compete, a radio station must occupy a singular position in the mind of the Listener. For a radio station to succeed, the Listener must realize one clear benefit. 5 Steps to Posturing the Station for Success
  • Evaluate. Analyze the market thoroughly. Research not only music preferences, but competitors, all media and technology usage, marketing and lifestyles. Ethnographic/one-on-one interviews and relaxed, properly-moderated focus group settings are invaluable for discovering key Listener issues.
  • Define. Identify a narrow ‘laser-target’ audience for the service. Develop a complete lifestyle model of the individual Listener. Establish a comprehensive plan for creating content unerringly aimed at this target.
  • Distinguish. Build the product and focus it to hyper-serve the target audience. Everything on and off the air -- including the website, the logo, even the lobby decor -- must reinforce the station’s unique position and demonstrate its benefit.
  • Implement. Aggressively put the plan into motion -- and see it through. Be certain that everyone committed to the product’s success has a clear understanding of the objectives, and makes a positive contribution.
  • Evaluate. This whole process is cyclical. A service developed in this fashion is on a collision course with success. But it’s then the process must begin anew -- to extend the product’s life-cycle and maintain focus.
‘Pick a target, pick a hill.’

As imperative as identifying the target Listener, is the value of point-of-purchase marketing. By reaching out to the Listener at the time and place she’s most inclined to use your product, you stand to most effectively influence her listening behavior. E-mail, telemarketing and direct mail messages delivered to the workplace are particularly effective for driving on-air and online consumption of AC radio.

Bright, Tight, Brief, Real & Resonant


An external marketing focus can’t triumph without a corresponding internal discipline. Everything that happens on the air should score high marks in five basic principles:
  • Bright. Know what the Listener likes, feels, understands, is talking about today--and talk about it too. Share your enthusiasm for the music and her daily experience.
  • Tight. Always flow forward. Each hour of programming should be considered a seamless, produced whole -- never perceived as a series of individual elements.
  • Brief. Talk about one thing and one thing only, each time you open the mike; anything else clouds the content and confuses the Listener. Less is more.
  • Real. Talk about your experience, framed in the Listener’s perspective. What passions do the two of you share? What will be said today that only you can say?
  • Resonant. Everything you say must have immediacy and meaning -- resonance -- with the Listener’s life ... or else it’s a waste of her time. Your content should balance evenly among the music, station promotion and audience activity.
Remember: ‘local trumps lists.’ In choosing between material that intersects the Listener’s daily experience in her hometown ... and a magazine-article list of ‘top five ways to groom your dog’ -- the local content always wins her heart.

What Do Women Want?


A landmark study by BrandChamps for Meredith Publishing revealed the three experiences the Listener wants -- and needs:
  • To reconnect: With herself, her significant other, her friends and her family.
  • To rejuvenate: Downtime to recharge her ‘life batteries’.
  • To reinvent: The opportunity to explore new opportunities and expand her worldview.
When crafting each promotion and each marketing message for an AC station, appeal to at least one of these needs.

'Surf, Sun & Sand': What Are Your Colors?

A Listener may only give you 15 minutes to touch her emotions. Wisely, the programmer strives to make each quarter-hour a musical microcosm of the station: a representative balance of styles, eras, tempos and textures.

A more engaging and visceral approach begins with considering the experience the station should offer the Listener. In Miami, it’s analogous to a day at the beach -- where the three key ingredients are the surf, the sun and the sand. Associating those elements with three primary colors -- blue, tangerine and taupe -- not only provides the station with a consistent palette and design platform, but even becomes a template for the music-scheduling philosophy.

The core sound of the station -- 50% of the library -- is coded ‘surf’. Another 25% of each category is the happier, poppier (usually more uptempo) ‘sun’ titles. And 25% is ‘sand’ -- the edgier, slightly harder tunes. Song sets are balanced to avoid direct transitions from ‘tangerine’ to ‘taupe’, always flowing through a ‘blue’ title to reinforce the station’s musical essence.

Ratings Drive Rates ... Drive Revenue

The successful radio programmer has always possessed an amalgam of attributes: attention to detail; a good ear for music and other program product; technical and production skills; awareness of emerging technologies; a mastery of the marketplace -- both statistically and emotionally.

The successful Program Director tempers this show business sense with a bottom-line sensibility. One important quality is the ability to maintain an understanding of, and positive relationship with the sales engine. My aunt, a career broadcaster herself, gave me sage advice 30 years ago which remains the foundation of my fiscal and operational philosophy: ‘Watch the pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.’

‘The role of the Manager is facilitator, expediter, barrier-destroyer,

diffuser of good news.’

-- Tom Peters

The most effective organizations are built of diverse people who offer a broad catalog of skills yet share common values. As a manager and team-leader, those values I encourage and prize above all others are initiative, versatility and attention to detail. It’s amazing what can be accomplished by a small, but cohesive, passionate and focused team. I’ve repeatedly discovered that a collaborative environment is crucial to creativity; truly, ‘all of us is smarter than each of us.’

‘You can think in black & white, and still imagine a zebra.’

When belts tighten and resources dwindle, innovation and creativity become essential to maximizing the station’s marketing investment. Growing up around pressmen, I learned the least expensive printed piece to produce is one color -- black ink -- on white paper. Yet consider one of the most exotic animals on the planet: The zebra is, essentially, a ‘one-color job’ -- black stripes on a white horse.

Moral: You don’t need lavish budgets to engage the Listener’s imagination and passion -- and with external marketing, even a simple but well-designed and executed campaign will be marvelously effective.

Thoughts on What’s Up Around the Bend

Electronic measurement will surely engorge an AC station’s cume. We’ll be able to boast perhaps double the audience of working women. But no matter how accurate the new mechanism, all the methodology will do is measure exposure to radio -- not engagement with radio. Our audiences will be larger ... but no more responsive (or valuable) to our advertisers.

In this era of continually emerging technologies, music alone is a commodity -- a need that can be satisfied at any one of a dozen destinations. The future for free, local radio is to offer unique, interactive, unduplicatible content that is ours and ours alone. If we are to engage our Listener ... if we are to connect with our Listener -- we must speak to her. We must speak with her.

In gaining her trust, in arousing her passion, in appealing to her ‘tribal’ sense of community -- we create a credible, durable brand; one which ultimately can be leveraged to deliver superior results for our Clients.

At our core, we are in the content business. Our present delivery system is grounded in a self-limiting, single-stream ‘push’ model. We must retool our product as a website that happens to have a transmitter attached (rather than the inverse). Ultimately, the broadcast signal will act as a 24/7 billboard or promotional ‘sampler’ for the nearly limitless menu of on-demand, customizable, interactive and Listener-generated content found online.

A Postscript on Excellence

Despite the massive change which has swept our industry, the days of legendary radio are not behind us. I was fortunate to experience at least the waning of WABC, WLS, KHJ and the other Top-40 giants. These are the stations that set the standards, the stations they write books about. These stations were the product of an unending, unrelenting, passionate quest for Excellence.

And that’s why I run my race. I want them to write a book about my radio station, too.

http://robsidney.blogs​pot.com/p/philosophy.h​tml (external link)

Wayne

Nice writeup but you're missing one key point:

Program directors don't interact directly with the listeners in a one-on-one intimate session. If you truly believe women aren't becoming hugely popular relatively easily compared to men with respect to certain genres and styles, you're simply not looking around.


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Jul 20, 2012 12:51 |  #30

mileslong24 wrote in post #14741924 (external link)
Male gynos outnumber females by a LARGE margin.

Males outnumber females by a LARGE margin in ALL sciences.

even the proportions of male to female gynos are about the same as male to females in the areas of science.....


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Photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums is the website for photographers and all who love great photos, camera and post processing techniques, gear talk, discussion and sharing. Professionals, hobbyists, newbies and those who don't even own a camera -- all are welcome regardless of skill, favourite brand, gear, gender or age. Registering and usage is free.